alternator circuit question

Jon G. wrote:

> This idea of installing an external voltage regulator to bypass a faulty
> computer, doesn't work. I put one on and it charged at 14 volts for
> about a day, then it jumped to 18 volts.

Of course it WORKS, but only if a bad regulator was the original problem.

You've most likely got a bad alternator rotor (shorting to ground) which
causes an over-charge condition. The regulator is on the GROUND side of
the rotor, so if the rotor is shorted to ground the regulator has
absolutely zero effect on the charge current.

The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several
voltage regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood"
on more than a supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous,
and is convincing enough to come across as someone who knows
what he's talking about. I'd advise anyone to steer clear of
him. Below is his reply to my previous post:

=====


On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Jon G. wrote:

> I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't
charge the
> battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and
there's
> nothing wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it
still won't
> charge. I checked the fuseable link from the alternator to
the battery,
> and there is continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.


The regulator is a part of the Single Board Engine Controller, yes.

> there are 4 connections on the alternator


> L1: direct to battery, positive
> L2: direct to battery, negative
> c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.


What you are calling "logic" wires are the field wires.

> I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an
> external voltage regulator.


<etc>

The way you plan to do it will not work.

Here is a fix that *will* work, without replacing the engine
computer and
without causing any additional problems:

First, pick one of the following regulators:

Regular normal electromechanical regulator:
NAPA Echlin VR32

Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount:
NAPA Echlin VR34

Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof
mount and
convenient external voltage adjustment screw:
NAPA Echlin VR35, Standard-Bluestreak VR106

Transistorized regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
Standard-Bluestreak VR101, Wells VR706 (the wells item is very
inexpensive; it works but Wells doesn't make my favourite stuff)

Waterproof potted IC regulator with no moving parts (no
adjusting screw):
NAPA Echlin VR1001, Standard-Bluestreak VR128


Any of these regulators will have two terminals on it, one
marked "IGN"
and the other marked "FLD". (the VR1001 and VR128 have the "fld"
terminal
on the end of a short wire lead). The alternator gets the
original C1 and
C2 wires removed from its two field terminals (right next to
each other,
small studs with nuts retaining the two flag terminals).

The regulator IGN terminal gets 12V via the ignition switch, and
the "FLD"
terminal gets connected via a wire to one (either) of the field
terminals
on the alternator. The other field terminal on the alternator gets
connected via a wire to ground. Run a ground wire -- 16ga is
plenty --
between the regulator base and the battery negative terminal,
and mount
the regulator such that it won't rock 'n' roll around. At this
point, your
charging system will once again work fine. If you got the adjustable
regulator, set it for 14.2v across the battery with the engine fully
warmed up and ambient temperature above 50F.

If your "Check Engine" light comes on, put a resistor across the two
original field wires C1 and C2 before securing these wires such
that they
can't ground out or get caught in any moving parts.

Close the hood; you're done.

The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several
voltage regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood"
on more than a supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous,
and is convincing enough to come across as someone who knows
what he's talking about. I'd advise anyone to steer clear of
him. Below is his reply to my previous post:

=====


On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Jon G. wrote:

> I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't
charge the
> battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and
there's
> nothing wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it
still won't
> charge. I checked the fuseable link from the alternator to
the battery,
> and there is continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.


The regulator is a part of the Single Board Engine Controller, yes.

> there are 4 connections on the alternator


> L1: direct to battery, positive
> L2: direct to battery, negative
> c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.


What you are calling "logic" wires are the field wires.

> I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an
> external voltage regulator.


<etc>

The way you plan to do it will not work.

Here is a fix that *will* work, without replacing the engine
computer and
without causing any additional problems:

First, pick one of the following regulators:

Regular normal electromechanical regulator:
NAPA Echlin VR32

Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount:
NAPA Echlin VR34

Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof
mount and
convenient external voltage adjustment screw:
NAPA Echlin VR35, Standard-Bluestreak VR106

Transistorized regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
Standard-Bluestreak VR101, Wells VR706 (the wells item is very
inexpensive; it works but Wells doesn't make my favourite stuff)

Waterproof potted IC regulator with no moving parts (no
adjusting screw):
NAPA Echlin VR1001, Standard-Bluestreak VR128


Any of these regulators will have two terminals on it, one
marked "IGN"
and the other marked "FLD". (the VR1001 and VR128 have the "fld"
terminal
on the end of a short wire lead). The alternator gets the
original C1 and
C2 wires removed from its two field terminals (right next to
each other,
small studs with nuts retaining the two flag terminals).

The regulator IGN terminal gets 12V via the ignition switch, and
the "FLD"
terminal gets connected via a wire to one (either) of the field
terminals
on the alternator. The other field terminal on the alternator gets
connected via a wire to ground. Run a ground wire -- 16ga is
plenty --
between the regulator base and the battery negative terminal,
and mount
the regulator such that it won't rock 'n' roll around. At this
point, your
charging system will once again work fine. If you got the adjustable
regulator, set it for 14.2v across the battery with the engine fully
warmed up and ambient temperature above 50F.

If your "Check Engine" light comes on, put a resistor across the two
original field wires C1 and C2 before securing these wires such
that they
can't ground out or get caught in any moving parts.

Close the hood; you're done.

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Jon G. wrote:

> The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several voltage
> regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood" on more than a
> supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous, and is convincing
> enough to come across as someone who knows what he's talking about.
> I'd advise anyone to steer clear of him. Below is his reply to my
> previous post:

Sure, fine, whatever, Jon. It didn't work for you 'cause you failed to
diagnose your problem correctly, but rather than do so, you'd rather futz
around with TV resistors and other bubblegum-and-duct-tape fixes.

I've been here in this forum for well over a decade, and have owned a
great many Mopars, and -- here's the fun part, Jon -- the external
voltage regulator fix has worked for a great many people who took the
time to diagnose their systems correctly and do the work right.

Your laziness is nobody's fault but your own.

Toodles,

DS

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004, Jon G. wrote:

> The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several voltage
> regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood" on more than a
> supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous, and is convincing
> enough to come across as someone who knows what he's talking about.
> I'd advise anyone to steer clear of him. Below is his reply to my
> previous post:

Sure, fine, whatever, Jon. It didn't work for you 'cause you failed to
diagnose your problem correctly, but rather than do so, you'd rather futz
around with TV resistors and other bubblegum-and-duct-tape fixes.

I've been here in this forum for well over a decade, and have owned a
great many Mopars, and -- here's the fun part, Jon -- the external
voltage regulator fix has worked for a great many people who took the
time to diagnose their systems correctly and do the work right.

Your laziness is nobody's fault but your own.

Toodles,

DS

I remember this post. Did you in fact follow his advice, and it caused
problems...or did you follow his advice incorrectly and it caused problems??
I don't understand why you claim....a SCAM??? Did he in fact take money
from your wallet?? Did you send him some cash in thanks for his advice??

I'm confused. 98% of the people here either 1.) have a problem that needs
to be corrected, or 2.) give advice as to how to fix it. Arm chair
trooubleshooting is not that easy, and I do not pass out information that I
am unsure of. It is up to YOU whether or not the advice you take is sound.
Not following the whole scam thing......

Sounds to me DJS is not to blame for giving out advice on a forum that will
in fact do nothing to benefit him, but you for taking it, or taking it
wrong.

Here's something you could try. Unfasten all of the electrical terminals in
the charging system one by one, and then lick each one before reinstalling
them. This will mysteriouly solve all your problems..........

Or you could just change the computer.

jest my $.02

Eightupman


"Jon G." > wrote in message
k.net...
> The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several voltage
> regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood" on more than a
> supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous, and is convincing enough
> to come across as someone who knows what he's talking about. I'd advise
> anyone to steer clear of him. Below is his reply to my previous post:
>
> =====
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Jon G. wrote:
>
> > I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't
> charge the
> > battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and
> there's
> > nothing wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it
> still won't
> > charge. I checked the fuseable link from the alternator to
> the battery,
> > and there is continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.
>
>
> The regulator is a part of the Single Board Engine Controller, yes.
>
> > there are 4 connections on the alternator
>
>
> > L1: direct to battery, positive
> > L2: direct to battery, negative
> > c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> > c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.
>
>
> What you are calling "logic" wires are the field wires.
>
> > I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an
> > external voltage regulator.
>
>
> <etc>
>
> The way you plan to do it will not work.
>
> Here is a fix that *will* work, without replacing the engine computer and
> without causing any additional problems:
>
> First, pick one of the following regulators:
>
> Regular normal electromechanical regulator:
> NAPA Echlin VR32
>
> Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount:
> NAPA Echlin VR34
>
> Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount and
> convenient external voltage adjustment screw:
> NAPA Echlin VR35, Standard-Bluestreak VR106
>
> Transistorized regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
> Standard-Bluestreak VR101, Wells VR706 (the wells item is very
> inexpensive; it works but Wells doesn't make my favourite stuff)
>
> Waterproof potted IC regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
> NAPA Echlin VR1001, Standard-Bluestreak VR128
>
>
> Any of these regulators will have two terminals on it, one marked "IGN"
> and the other marked "FLD". (the VR1001 and VR128 have the "fld" terminal
> on the end of a short wire lead). The alternator gets the original C1 and
> C2 wires removed from its two field terminals (right next to each other,
> small studs with nuts retaining the two flag terminals).
>
> The regulator IGN terminal gets 12V via the ignition switch, and the "FLD"
> terminal gets connected via a wire to one (either) of the field terminals
> on the alternator. The other field terminal on the alternator gets
> connected via a wire to ground. Run a ground wire -- 16ga is plenty --
> between the regulator base and the battery negative terminal, and mount
> the regulator such that it won't rock 'n' roll around. At this point, your
> charging system will once again work fine. If you got the adjustable
> regulator, set it for 14.2v across the battery with the engine fully
> warmed up and ambient temperature above 50F.
>
> If your "Check Engine" light comes on, put a resistor across the two
> original field wires C1 and C2 before securing these wires such that they
> can't ground out or get caught in any moving parts.
>
> Close the hood; you're done.

I remember this post. Did you in fact follow his advice, and it caused
problems...or did you follow his advice incorrectly and it caused problems??
I don't understand why you claim....a SCAM??? Did he in fact take money
from your wallet?? Did you send him some cash in thanks for his advice??

I'm confused. 98% of the people here either 1.) have a problem that needs
to be corrected, or 2.) give advice as to how to fix it. Arm chair
trooubleshooting is not that easy, and I do not pass out information that I
am unsure of. It is up to YOU whether or not the advice you take is sound.
Not following the whole scam thing......

Sounds to me DJS is not to blame for giving out advice on a forum that will
in fact do nothing to benefit him, but you for taking it, or taking it
wrong.

Here's something you could try. Unfasten all of the electrical terminals in
the charging system one by one, and then lick each one before reinstalling
them. This will mysteriouly solve all your problems..........

Or you could just change the computer.

jest my $.02

Eightupman


"Jon G." > wrote in message
k.net...
> The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several voltage
> regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood" on more than a
> supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous, and is convincing enough
> to come across as someone who knows what he's talking about. I'd advise
> anyone to steer clear of him. Below is his reply to my previous post:
>
> =====
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Jon G. wrote:
>
> > I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't
> charge the
> > battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and
> there's
> > nothing wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it
> still won't
> > charge. I checked the fuseable link from the alternator to
> the battery,
> > and there is continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.
>
>
> The regulator is a part of the Single Board Engine Controller, yes.
>
> > there are 4 connections on the alternator
>
>
> > L1: direct to battery, positive
> > L2: direct to battery, negative
> > c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> > c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.
>
>
> What you are calling "logic" wires are the field wires.
>
> > I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an
> > external voltage regulator.
>
>
> <etc>
>
> The way you plan to do it will not work.
>
> Here is a fix that *will* work, without replacing the engine computer and
> without causing any additional problems:
>
> First, pick one of the following regulators:
>
> Regular normal electromechanical regulator:
> NAPA Echlin VR32
>
> Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount:
> NAPA Echlin VR34
>
> Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount and
> convenient external voltage adjustment screw:
> NAPA Echlin VR35, Standard-Bluestreak VR106
>
> Transistorized regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
> Standard-Bluestreak VR101, Wells VR706 (the wells item is very
> inexpensive; it works but Wells doesn't make my favourite stuff)
>
> Waterproof potted IC regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
> NAPA Echlin VR1001, Standard-Bluestreak VR128
>
>
> Any of these regulators will have two terminals on it, one marked "IGN"
> and the other marked "FLD". (the VR1001 and VR128 have the "fld" terminal
> on the end of a short wire lead). The alternator gets the original C1 and
> C2 wires removed from its two field terminals (right next to each other,
> small studs with nuts retaining the two flag terminals).
>
> The regulator IGN terminal gets 12V via the ignition switch, and the "FLD"
> terminal gets connected via a wire to one (either) of the field terminals
> on the alternator. The other field terminal on the alternator gets
> connected via a wire to ground. Run a ground wire -- 16ga is plenty --
> between the regulator base and the battery negative terminal, and mount
> the regulator such that it won't rock 'n' roll around. At this point, your
> charging system will once again work fine. If you got the adjustable
> regulator, set it for 14.2v across the battery with the engine fully
> warmed up and ambient temperature above 50F.
>
> If your "Check Engine" light comes on, put a resistor across the two
> original field wires C1 and C2 before securing these wires such that they
> can't ground out or get caught in any moving parts.
>
> Close the hood; you're done.

Jon G. wrote:

> The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several
> voltage regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood"
> on more than a supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous,
> and is convincing enough to come across as someone who knows
> what he's talking about. I'd advise anyone to steer clear of
> him. Below is his reply to my previous post:

why don't you stop crossposting all the other groups. You got scammed when
you first bought a Chrysler, I've been there too. This is only one example
of their poor design, you will hit many more problems like this.

Jon G. wrote:

> The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several
> voltage regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood"
> on more than a supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous,
> and is convincing enough to come across as someone who knows
> what he's talking about. I'd advise anyone to steer clear of
> him. Below is his reply to my previous post:

why don't you stop crossposting all the other groups. You got scammed when
you first bought a Chrysler, I've been there too. This is only one example
of their poor design, you will hit many more problems like this.

Always try to steer away from modifications and seek out the problem. By
modifing an electrical system to work may be ok, but you never no where the
broken part of the circuit is, it may be a loose or corroded wire that
could cause other problems, But how can you bad mouth/insult someone on
here that is trying to help you out, the people here can not see the
vehicle, they try to give assisitance due to past experience or because
thats the profession of the person,
Maybe Mom needs to place a Haynes manual under your tree? any way Merry Xmas
Glenn Beasley
Chysler Tech
"Jon G." > wrote in message
k.net...
> The fellow who gave me this advice could rattle off several
> voltage regulator models, but he was in it to "close the hood"
> on more than a supposed fixit. He knows enough to be dangerous,
> and is convincing enough to come across as someone who knows
> what he's talking about. I'd advise anyone to steer clear of
> him. Below is his reply to my previous post:
>
> =====
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Jon G. wrote:
>
> > I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't
> charge the
> > battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and
> there's
> > nothing wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it
> still won't
> > charge. I checked the fuseable link from the alternator to
> the battery,
> > and there is continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.
>
>
> The regulator is a part of the Single Board Engine Controller, yes.
>
> > there are 4 connections on the alternator
>
>
> > L1: direct to battery, positive
> > L2: direct to battery, negative
> > c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> > c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.
>
>
> What you are calling "logic" wires are the field wires.
>
> > I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an
> > external voltage regulator.
>
>
> <etc>
>
> The way you plan to do it will not work.
>
> Here is a fix that *will* work, without replacing the engine
> computer and
> without causing any additional problems:
>
> First, pick one of the following regulators:
>
> Regular normal electromechanical regulator:
> NAPA Echlin VR32
>
> Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof mount:
> NAPA Echlin VR34
>
> Extra heavy duty electromechanical regulator w/vibrationproof
> mount and
> convenient external voltage adjustment screw:
> NAPA Echlin VR35, Standard-Bluestreak VR106
>
> Transistorized regulator with no moving parts (no adjusting screw):
> Standard-Bluestreak VR101, Wells VR706 (the wells item is very
> inexpensive; it works but Wells doesn't make my favourite stuff)
>
> Waterproof potted IC regulator with no moving parts (no
> adjusting screw):
> NAPA Echlin VR1001, Standard-Bluestreak VR128
>
>
> Any of these regulators will have two terminals on it, one
> marked "IGN"
> and the other marked "FLD". (the VR1001 and VR128 have the "fld"
> terminal
> on the end of a short wire lead). The alternator gets the
> original C1 and
> C2 wires removed from its two field terminals (right next to
> each other,
> small studs with nuts retaining the two flag terminals).
>
> The regulator IGN terminal gets 12V via the ignition switch, and
> the "FLD"
> terminal gets connected via a wire to one (either) of the field
> terminals
> on the alternator. The other field terminal on the alternator gets
> connected via a wire to ground. Run a ground wire -- 16ga is
> plenty --
> between the regulator base and the battery negative terminal,
> and mount
> the regulator such that it won't rock 'n' roll around. At this
> point, your
> charging system will once again work fine. If you got the adjustable
> regulator, set it for 14.2v across the battery with the engine fully
> warmed up and ambient temperature above 50F.
>
> If your "Check Engine" light comes on, put a resistor across the two
> original field wires C1 and C2 before securing these wires such
> that they
> can't ground out or get caught in any moving parts.
>
> Close the hood; you're done.