Camshaft and Crankshaft Sensors?

Wrote:
>
> > MT-2500 > wrote:
>
> > You need to check for OBD11 codes.
>
>
> Here's what I've found for 96-97 Caravans
>
> Code 11-Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position
> sensors.
>
> Code 11-Crankshaft position sensor target windows have too much
> variation.
>
> Code 11-No crank reference signal detected during engine cranking.
>
>
> > Could be a bad bad new sensor or you replaced the wrong one.
> > The crankshaft sensor is the one that uses the spacer dot.
>
>
> So this is all wrong? (fig. 3) This is exactly what the part I bought
> looked like and identically matched the part I removed:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y9fek9


CODE 11 does not say which one.
You need the OBD11 codes to find the right one.
And like said knowing auto zone could even be a bad new sensor.:rofl:


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> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> > "maxpower" > wrote:
>
> > when was the last time this vehicle had a tune up with a good set of
plug
> > wires? And how many miles are on it?
>
>
> 62,000 miles. We got it with 19,000 miles on it. Have never replaced
> plugs or plug wires.
>
> More info: I drove it around the block again and it ran smoothly,
> normally. I disconnected the battery for five minutes to clear the
> codes and once again drove it around the block and this time got
> jerking and bucking again, though not as bad as the first drive after
> crank sensor install. Service Engine light has not come on (yet).
>
I would be willing to bet all you need is a tune up to eliminate this
problem. replacing the plugs and wires. But once again, a good scan tool
would confirm that!!!

Glenn

> "maxpower" > wrote:

> I would be willing to bet all you need is a tune up to eliminate this
> problem. replacing the plugs and wires. But once again, a good scan tool
> would confirm that!!!

I'm going to have it scoped out on Monday, even if my next repair
attempt is successful.

I'm going to pull the crank sensor out and see if the paper spacer is
missing. I'm thinking that maybe I didn't get the sensor seated in
there far enough and it's giving unreliable signals to the PCM. My
reasoning is the Cruise light coming on and off when the engine
sputters. The Cruise Control uses the crank position sensor to sense
engine speed, correct? The paper spacer seemed to be about .010" thick.
I've got lots of card stock laying around so if it's missing I'll make
a spacer and glue it on and try to install the crank sensor again.

> I'm going to pull the crank sensor out and see if the paper spacer is
> missing. I'm thinking that maybe I didn't get the sensor seated in
> there far enough and it's giving unreliable signals to the PCM. My
> reasoning is the Cruise light coming on and off when the engine
> sputters.

The paper spacer was still on the end of the crank sensor, just
slightly pushed off-center and overhanging the edge. I used my thumb to
push it back in the center of the end of the sensor and reinstalled it
pressing the sensor into the flywheel housing while tightening the
bolt. (I had done this previously but this time was more ambitious, but
it's hard to get leverage in such an awkward position.)

Test drive started out promising then began sputtering and backfiring
again. This time the Service Engine Light came on. I've now got a code
11 again. I'll pull the sensor again tomorrow and check for the
presence of the paper spacer. Maybe this time I'll pull the battery out
so I can get more leverage when reinstalling.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
>
> > I'm going to pull the crank sensor out and see if the paper spacer is
> > missing. I'm thinking that maybe I didn't get the sensor seated in
> > there far enough and it's giving unreliable signals to the PCM. My
> > reasoning is the Cruise light coming on and off when the engine
> > sputters.
>
> The paper spacer was still on the end of the crank sensor, just
> slightly pushed off-center and overhanging the edge. I used my thumb to
> push it back in the center of the end of the sensor and reinstalled it
> pressing the sensor into the flywheel housing while tightening the
> bolt. (I had done this previously but this time was more ambitious, but
> it's hard to get leverage in such an awkward position.)
>
> Test drive started out promising then began sputtering and backfiring
> again. This time the Service Engine Light came on. I've now got a code
> 11 again. I'll pull the sensor again tomorrow and check for the
> presence of the paper spacer. Maybe this time I'll pull the battery out
> so I can get more leverage when reinstalling.
>
You can not go by cycling the key to retrieve fault codes on this year
vehicle. It is not accurate!! use a scan tool to retrieve the correct code

GLENN

> maxpower wrote:


> You can not go by cycling the key to retrieve fault codes on this year
> vehicle. It is not accurate!! use a scan tool to retrieve the correct code

Yes, I intend to have it scanned on Monday.....assuming I can get it to
the shop!

In article
. com>,
wrote:

> The paper spacer was still on the end of the crank sensor, just
> slightly pushed off-center and overhanging the edge.

Indicating that the sensor was installed to the correct depth.

> I used my thumb to
> push it back in the center of the end of the sensor and reinstalled it
> pressing the sensor into the flywheel housing while tightening the
> bolt. (I had done this previously but this time was more ambitious, but
> it's hard to get leverage in such an awkward position.)
>
> Test drive started out promising then began sputtering and backfiring
> again. This time the Service Engine Light came on. I've now got a code
> 11 again. I'll pull the sensor again tomorrow and check for the
> presence of the paper spacer. Maybe this time I'll pull the battery out
> so I can get more leverage when reinstalling.

I'm not sure whether you're trying to fix your van or simply chew
up the crank sensor.
Your problem lies elsewhere...

Get the trouble codes read as Glen suggested.

like you said a good scantool is needed here before parts are thrown at it

maxpower wrote:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > > "maxpower" > wrote:
> >
> > > when was the last time this vehicle had a tune up with a good set of
> plug
> > > wires? And how many miles are on it?
> >
> >
> > 62,000 miles. We got it with 19,000 miles on it. Have never replaced
> > plugs or plug wires.
> >
> > More info: I drove it around the block again and it ran smoothly,
> > normally. I disconnected the battery for five minutes to clear the
> > codes and once again drove it around the block and this time got
> > jerking and bucking again, though not as bad as the first drive after
> > crank sensor install. Service Engine light has not come on (yet).
> >
> I would be willing to bet all you need is a tune up to eliminate this
> problem. replacing the plugs and wires. But once again, a good scan tool
> would confirm that!!!
>
> Glenn

Here's an update:

Finally got it into a shop for hookup to a good scan tool. This was a
shop recommended by a good mechanic friend of mine that I trust.
Indeed, there was wall filled with ASE certificates and they advertise
themselves as "engine drivability specialists" and "advanced engine
performance" specialists.

Here's what they found:

When initially started from cold condition, the car runs for about 10
minutes then stumbles and dies. Starts right up, runs for a minute or
so and stumbles and dies. There are no stored trouble codes, no new
codes are being generated. He agreed that the two main culprits had
been identified--cam and crank sensors. It's not the plugs or the plug
wires. If it was a cracked flex plate you'd likely hear something,
didn't rule it out, but considered it a long shot. The guy basically
said he was stumped, suggesting that perhaps a reflashing of the PCM
might do it, but that he didn't have the equipment to do it. He
suggested I take it to a dealer.

Opinions?

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> Here's an update:
>
> Finally got it into a shop for hookup to a good scan tool. This was a
> shop recommended by a good mechanic friend of mine that I trust.
> Indeed, there was wall filled with ASE certificates and they advertise
> themselves as "engine drivability specialists" and "advanced engine
> performance" specialists.
>
> Here's what they found:
>
> When initially started from cold condition, the car runs for about 10
> minutes then stumbles and dies. Starts right up, runs for a minute or
> so and stumbles and dies. There are no stored trouble codes, no new
> codes are being generated. He agreed that the two main culprits had
> been identified--cam and crank sensors. It's not the plugs or the plug
> wires. If it was a cracked flex plate you'd likely hear something,
> didn't rule it out, but considered it a long shot. The guy basically
> said he was stumped, suggesting that perhaps a reflashing of the PCM
> might do it, but that he didn't have the equipment to do it. He
> suggested I take it to a dealer.
>
> Opinions?
>

Nope, not a reflash problem. If this person had a good scan tool he would be
able to monitor the inputs and outputs of all sensors while the problem was
happening, if they didn't see anything on the scan tool the next thing would
be to do a fuel pressure test.
Sounds to me like they didn't want to get involved in the problem and want
to blow it off to the dealer.
My opinion