Is a Jetta TDI a good car?

My Jetta has been mostly reliable for 9 years and 180k miles and I have no
immediate plans to sell it. However, keep in mind that VW's have always had
a kind of sliding scale of reliability.

Mission critical systems used in German models (engine, manual
transmissions) are highly reliable, atleast as good as the Japs, even
bulletproof. Their old 8 valve gas 4 cyl. motor really needed to have
enough oil and it would go forever, not even good oil, not even the right
oil, just enough oil.

Automatic transmissions, less common with the European models, are less
reliable, less of a good idea if you ever tow stuff, and get more recalls.
In VW's defense, this may be true of automatic vs. manual transmissions in
general.

Electric components (power windows, locks, alarms, pollution control sensor
bits that set off the check engine light but wont leave you stranded), seat
tilt knobs, interior plastic is not nearly up to Toyota standards. You
should expect more plastic trim falling off, electrical gremlins, and many
little niggling cosmetic problems as a VW hits 10 years of age. My friends'
10-15 year old corollas have less trouble of this type. This problem can be
partially avoided by getting a stripped model with less of these extra
features.

On a more charitable note, my TDI has towed 2500lb+ trailers all over the
damn place with no complaints, has its original clutch, went to Alaska twice
(from Texas), and it is easy to beat the EPA 41/49 mpg of my year. Note -
my car was slightly less powerful, lighter and smaller than the current
model, hence the better mileage.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I'm getting kind of tired of people coming on to this post and slamming
> VWs all the time. I have owned many VWs and worked on cars of many
> brands. Yes VWs require maitenance, so does every car. Its just a
> fact of life. I own VWs because they are a blast to drive, and yes I
> own a turbo diesel made after 1993 (2 actually) and they do cost me
> money to keep going but they also make my drive to work every day
> enjoyable. There is lots of stupid engineering on VWs but so is there
> on every car. So try to give some useful advice instead of just
> slanderous comments. If you have a bad experience with a VW back it up
> with facts like "it cost me $750.37 to have my injection pump rebuilt."
> Here is my evidence in favour of VW diesels, I have a 1994 Golf turbo
> diesel with 405000kms on it and it gets me back and forth to work every
> day (60kms one way city and highway) and I get 45mpg to 50mpg. I
> perform regular maitenance like brakes air and oil filter etc etc.
> Hasn't let me down and still has amazing power. Engine has never been
> opened up(Im the second owner.)
>OH BOY!!!!!! A guy asked for opinions who owns Toyotas. You ever own a
>Toyota. Well his wife aint going to be happy with a used TDI and I told him
>so. All cars are not the same. Period. Some cars require more maintenance
>than others. Toyotas require nothing. But if you want your warranty ,
>change your oil and rotate your tires. You can dream on about VWs and
>Toyota comparisons. I gave him excellent useful advice. I see your 93 cost
>you a lot of money but gets you there. My VWs too. But I aint giving one to
>my wife. Whats your wife drive. Theres plenty of experiences here , and
>elsewhere for everyone to read. So here it is again. >I suggest you buy the
>used VW TDI for yourself. Or a new one for your wife
as a last resort. I doubt you're really serious about Bio diesel too. You
wish to save gas money, but want to pay someone a premium for biodiesel over
diesel. And you wish to buy a 13-16 k car to do it. Your wife's not going
to let you set up a Biodiesel plant in your garage , for 4 grand to save 500
bucks a year for your TDI. Buy a Corolla or some other upper scale Toyota
for your wife. To buy a used TDI for your wife is asking for problems.
Basically because you have Toyota's already. She's probably not going to
tolerate Pidley issues. Or the big 500- 1000 dollar chingers from the
dealers. VWs are many steps down from a Toyota in reliability, not one.
You're gonna get blamed for your choice. Its gonna cost you, heartache and
sack time. If you just got to have somebody else's used TDI, to get 45mpg,
go for it. But it's yours , Not hers. But for 13-16k you can get your wife a
brand new Toyota, at 40 mpg. Better in everyway to VW TDIs except gas
mileage, and no farging maintenance headaches.
"Jeff Olsen" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I am seriously considering one of these, primarily for the fuel economy
> and the potential to run it on Biodiesel. I have never owned a VW and
> the reputation sort of precedes them... supposed to be fun to drive,
> lots of personality, but prone towards nickle-and-dime repairs. I own
> 2 Toyotas right now; will a modern VW be a step down in reliability?
> Anything I should know about these cars? I am hoping to spend in the
> $13k-$16k range, so I'll be looking at say '02 to '04 model years with
> 30-70K miles on them.
>
> It will be my wife's car. Right now, through sort of a convoluted
> path, I have two heavy-duty vehicles that get poor fuel mileage (Land
> Cruiser and Tundra) and, doing the math, even though I love the Land
> Cruiser's capability as a family adventure mobile, the gas mileage is
> brutal and a Jetta TDI would literally save me pushing 2 grand a year
> in fuel costs. So that's a roundabout way of saying, for camping or
> going skiing in bad weather, we'd take the Tundra... the Jetta will be
> used primarily for buzzing about with the kids and lighter-duty type
> applications. Anything from soccer-mom stuff to going to the beach or
> a paved-road only road trip (we do the other kind too <g>).
>
> I appreciate any advice or comments.
>
> -jeff
>

none2u wrote:
> I suggest you buy the used VW TDI for yourself. Or a new one for your wife
> as a last resort. I doubt you're really serious about Bio diesel too. You
> wish to save gas money, but want to pay someone a premium for biodiesel over
> diesel. And you wish to buy a 13-16 k car to do it. Your wife's not going
> to let you set up a Biodiesel plant in your garage , for 4 grand to save 500
> bucks a year for your TDI. Buy a Corolla or some other upper scale Toyota
> for your wife. To buy a used TDI for your wife is asking for problems.
> Basically because you have Toyota's already. She's probably not going to
> tolerate Pidley issues. Or the big 500- 1000 dollar chingers from the
> dealers. VWs are many steps down from a Toyota in reliability, not one.
> You're gonna get blamed for your choice. Its gonna cost you, heartache and
> sack time. If you just got to have somebody else's used TDI, to get 45mpg,
> go for it. But it's yours , Not hers. But for 13-16k you can get your wife a
> brand new Toyota, at 40 mpg. Better in everyway to VW TDIs except gas
> mileage, and no farging maintenance headaches.

Wow. Brutal. Well, this is the kind of feedback I need.

Just to clarify, this is the car my wife really wants, and she's really
into Biodiesel, and it's easy to get here in good ol' Eugene Oregon and
about the cost of fancy-pants store-bought diesel, or even slightly
less. So those, at least, are non-issues. This is the car she was
lobbying for when I bought the Land Cruiser.

The picture you paint of a VW's reliability is scary. Confusing. Now
I'm not so sure I even want one, after this post.

-jeff





> "Jeff Olsen" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >I am seriously considering one of these, primarily for the fuel economy
> > and the potential to run it on Biodiesel. I have never owned a VW and
> > the reputation sort of precedes them... supposed to be fun to drive,
> > lots of personality, but prone towards nickle-and-dime repairs. I own
> > 2 Toyotas right now; will a modern VW be a step down in reliability?
> > Anything I should know about these cars? I am hoping to spend in the
> > $13k-$16k range, so I'll be looking at say '02 to '04 model years with
> > 30-70K miles on them.
> >
> > It will be my wife's car. Right now, through sort of a convoluted
> > path, I have two heavy-duty vehicles that get poor fuel mileage (Land
> > Cruiser and Tundra) and, doing the math, even though I love the Land
> > Cruiser's capability as a family adventure mobile, the gas mileage is
> > brutal and a Jetta TDI would literally save me pushing 2 grand a year
> > in fuel costs. So that's a roundabout way of saying, for camping or
> > going skiing in bad weather, we'd take the Tundra... the Jetta will be
> > used primarily for buzzing about with the kids and lighter-duty type
> > applications. Anything from soccer-mom stuff to going to the beach or
> > a paved-road only road trip (we do the other kind too <g>).
> >
> > I appreciate any advice or comments.
> >
> > -jeff
> >

On 2006-07-12, Jeff Olsen > wrote:
>
> Wow. Brutal. Well, this is the kind of feedback I need.
>
> The picture you paint of a VW's reliability is scary. Confusing. Now
> I'm not so sure I even want one, after this post.

If I may, let me throw in another point of view for balance.
If I didn't know anything about VWs, after reading none2u's post, I
might be inclined to wonder how VWs are even allowed to be sold in the
US. I agree with him that regarding quality assurance, they aren't as
good as Toyotas or Hondas. I understand where he is coming from.
But, to put it in perspective, I believe VWs are at least as good as (or
better than) cars put out by the "big three" US auto makers. This is
just my opinion of course. But here is my personal experience:

We have a 2003 Ford Focus Wagon. It only has 40000 miles on it right
now. Within the last 1/2 year, we have developed problems with the
power windows. At any given point in time, you may or may not be
able to roll down/up any of the windows. The back bumper is coming
loose (and it has never been in an accident). The front brakes have
been replaced not once, but twice rather (new pads, discs,
everything) and they are already starting to grind again! All of this
and I'm only getting 28 mpg.

In my opinion VW quality is not any worse than what we are getting
with this Ford Focus -- and would you believe that the Focus is one of
Ford's best selling vehicles. If I had my time to go over, we would
have purchased a Jetta wagon.

-Bryan

--
remove the "REMOVE" from my email to email

none2u > wrote:

> >OH BOY!!!!!! A guy asked for opinions who owns Toyotas. You ever own a
> >Toyota. Well his wife aint going to be happy with a used TDI and I told him
> >so. All cars are not the same. Period. Some cars require more maintenance
> >than others. Toyotas require nothing. But if you want your warranty ,
> >change your oil and rotate your tires. You can dream on about VWs and
> >Toyota comparisons. I gave him excellent useful advice. I see your 93 cost
> >you a lot of money but gets you there. My VWs too. But I aint giving one to
> >my wife. Whats your wife drive. Theres plenty of experiences here , and
> >elsewhere for everyone to read. So here it is again. >I suggest you buy the
> >used VW TDI for yourself. Or a new one for your wife

Oh boy! Another Toyota is the perfect company. Lemme tell you something,
they aren't. I recently bought an old MR2. Now, I will admit that all of
the things I am about to mention are pre-existing problems, but they are
problems nonetheless:

#1) They rust... They rust like crazy. They rust in ways that are truly
unimaginable on a Volkswagen. No joke.

#2) When the fuel pump goes bad (which happens if you let the car sit for
more than a couple months), you have to drop the fuel tank to replace it.
And dropping the tank on this thing is not a one man-operation. It's a
two man operation and its a complete PITA.

#3) When you want to go replace the fuel pump, you consult the Toyota
FACTORY service manual and read its advice:
a) Drain fuel tank (no explanation as to how, and no provision to
to do so)
b) Remove fuel tank
c) Remove fuel pump bracket
d) Remove fuel pump (yes, you read that right, its an intank pump
with no provision to replace it with the tank in the car, I've
never seen VW do such a boneheaded thing).

In order to remove the fuel tank, you have to take off a shield in the
back of the car, that has about 5 nuts on it (which would be completely
non-obvious if no one told you), remove three shields on the bottom, 6
fuel lines (some of which are in ridiculously contorted places), and then
you remove to tank straps and lower it down at an angle. But before you
do that, you have to disassemble the center console and remove two
electrical connectors (again, not mentioned anywhere in the manual).

So then, I have some questions about the exhaust system, so I go look
stuff up in the manual. And yes, you guessed it, there is no mention of
the exhaust system anywhere in the manual. Very impressive.

#4) There are tons of parts on the car that basically can't be had
anywhere but from Toyota, if you're lucky. And when I say tons of parts,
I don't mean parts like headliners, I mean parts like... oh say... tie
rods, and yes, just like any other car, they go bad. Oh and when you buy
new tie rods, and they cost, say $100/ea, you'll be thinking, why the hell
didn't I buy a Porsche, at least their tie rods are only $60/ea.

#5) The headlight switch: apparently every MR2 ever made has bad solder
joints on the headlight switch. Oh what a feeling...

If you want to claim that VW has issues thats fine, but so does Toyota,
they are just different issues. VW supports its cars way better than
Toyota or Honda, especially if you want to work on your own car.

Jeff Olsen wrote:
: none2u wrote:
:
: Wow. Brutal. Well, this is the kind of feedback I need.
:
: Just to clarify, this is the car my wife really wants, and she's
: really into Biodiesel, and it's easy to get here in good ol' Eugene
: Oregon and about the cost of fancy-pants store-bought diesel, or even
: slightly less. So those, at least, are non-issues. This is the car
: she was lobbying for when I bought the Land Cruiser.
:
: The picture you paint of a VW's reliability is scary. Confusing.
: Now I'm not so sure I even want one, after this post.
:
Dont recommend it....I ditched my 2002 after almost 2 years. The
problematic dirty fuel and intake clogging was the last straw. Lotsa
little things going wrong with it like rattles and other noises. The
car is fun to drive but it's HIGH MAINTENANCE. If you can live with that
and the costs both tangible and nontangible, go for it.

The Ford Focus is a fine example of what's wrong with Ford. And kinda invalidates your argument. It is their bestseller, but that doesn't matter. Because they eliminated their own better cars from their own market. And its not compared to Fords Euro lineup. It is the most recalled car in the history of Ford Motor Company. I suspect if you knew that you wouldn't of bought one, unless you had too. Its not better then the Ford Escort it replaced. It does however make them more money. Of course, I see, I've ****ed somebody off again. I'm not apologizing, This was meant for someone who already owns high end Toyotas, and never had a Vdub, from someone who owns Toyotas and VWs. I cant see anyone with new Toyotas ,accepting the reliability of a VW. Its completely opposite end of the spectrum, and they are both used to their Toyotas already. I didn't bash it too bad either. I offered no real examples of peoples headaches on purpose. He wasn't interested in the value of a high maintenance work beater either. I completely understand the value of a 10 year old paid for, VW, diesel especially, that gets you there, with a high amount of repairs and piddley issues. I got a fleet of them. I said nothing about the cost of a fuel pump , Or what happens when a timing belt breaks. Or everybody's issues. I said don't get it for your wife. My and his wife, I assumed are more important than any car. The potential for disaster is there. He can afford high end Toyotas, but buys her a used TDI , possibly just out of warranty with previous owner issues, that might cause her headaches, because he wants her to save gas money. If she felt slighted, don't like the smell of diesel, or has to visit the crappy dealers and pay the bills, and the car has issues. Its going to get ugly. His concern was maintenance issues and saving gas money. VWs are not cheaper to operate then Toyotas , even TDIs. The bottom line, Is all diesel owners pay a premium in increased cost , that are far more then the savings you get from the increased mpg. I spent 9 months trying to figure an angle to get me another VW diesel hatch , to replace my 86 golf hatch. New or used, over better cars. No impulse,no nostalgia, no commercials, no image.Real or perceived. Just pure unbiased, side by side comparisons, with cold hearted logic. My one requirement was a hatchback. VW never dropped hatchbacks. Its their forte. I really like Golf diesel 4 door hatchbacks. They are incredibly useful. But in the end, The logic isn't there. I didn't even want a Toyota at the beginning , because they had no hatch. But I got one without. And because of it I like VWs more. It completely negates all the stress related to owning VWs. No more surprises, or stupidity, No more , wondering what's next, How's my timing belt, will it make it BS. No dependency on the undependable. Or wondering why my coworker had to pay $10,000 for an engine because he put non synthetic oil in it for 3 years, and it took a crap. But my A2 has 2 gazillion miles on the trans and its been run dry, numerous times, and with every kind of fluid or grease, under the sun, but wont break. How much is this going to cost BS. Or where in the hell am I going to get 3500 bucks for a farging diesel TDI fuel pump. I,m sick of hearing my brand new Jetta, rear pads have failed at { fill in any number from 4000 miles to 12000 miles} and the dealer says my pads,and rotors and calipers are shot. They charged me { fill in any number from free to $1800 }and said its caused by the atmosphere, and the dust from our pads which we put on your car , because our brakes squeal. And its not covered. Because your worn out parts at 6000 miles have no warranty, because you don't drive your car much. To bad you don't live in space with no air, this wouldn't of happened. I,m not closed minded, I,m not an ardent VW owner, My head isn't in the sand, I see completely clear and focused. I could give a crap about some perceived image of a VW or the owner. I,m not going over VWs marketing tactics, their self protectionism, anti competitive behavior, And the US being their dumping ground to keep their plants running at full capacity. Or their strategic business plans to sell to new buyers, screw them for the life of the vehicle. Then redesign their cars and sell to some more new buyers in 4 years. Start over. repeat, Start again. They give a rats ass about a current owner. Toyotas trying to figure out how to build 5 new plants fast enough for demand of all the return customers and the new ones. VW trying to figure out how to get their customer base, An idiot with a pimped ride to buy a $20,000 car. AND I'm not going to suggest a VW to any Toyota owner, or his wife. Or stand back and say look what I told him to buy and laugh about it afterwards, when he's posting hereabout his problems. Period. Very relevant, excellent , prudent ,logical, advice. Also typical, he left out relevant information. Now he says, His wife wants one. We wouldn't be here if he said. I want one , She wants one. There's no problem. Get it , Enjoy being slaves together to your new owner. I am not responsible for people who don't post all the information. And finally food for thought. A long time ago I bought a diesel for my ex-wife number 1. She ran it out of fuel alot. Flat out lazy. Which is why she's gone, I got tired of working on it all the time.So she could run it out of gas. She ran it out of fuel once too many times. I refused to go get it again, I got sick of bleeding the fuel pump by the side of the road in the rain , hoping its not wasted, to get it to start. She went to get it, the dealer fixed it, She paid for it, and sold it soon after. Said it was too much trouble. I got a new Escort wagon for her. 150 miles less to a tank of gas, but she never ran it out of gas in 10 years. I asked her why. You ready for this. She said, she was so worried about weather the VW would start, or if the brakes would lock up, or the heater core was going to burn her again, or if it had heat this morning, or if the AC would work, or what was going to happen next, That she couldn't remember that it needed gas. She was too farging stressed from the car...... to remember put gas in it.. There's your relevant fact.. Get it, Got it, Good....
"Bryan K. Walton" > wrote in message ink.com...
> On 2006-07-12, Jeff Olsen > wrote:
>>
>> Wow. Brutal. Well, this is the kind of feedback I need.
>>
>> The picture you paint of a VW's reliability is scary. Confusing. Now
>> I'm not so sure I even want one, after this post.
>
> If I may, let me throw in another point of view for balance.
> If I didn't know anything about VWs, after reading none2u's post, I
> might be inclined to wonder how VWs are even allowed to be sold in the
> US. I agree with him that regarding quality assurance, they aren't as
> good as Toyotas or Hondas. I understand where he is coming from.
> But, to put it in perspective, I believe VWs are at least as good as (or
> better than) cars put out by the "big three" US auto makers. This is
> just my opinion of course. But here is my personal experience:
>
> We have a 2003 Ford Focus Wagon. It only has 40000 miles on it right
> now. Within the last 1/2 year, we have developed problems with the
> power windows. At any given point in time, you may or may not be
> able to roll down/up any of the windows. The back bumper is coming
> loose (and it has never been in an accident). The front brakes have
> been replaced not once, but twice rather (new pads, discs,
> everything) and they are already starting to grind again! All of this
> and I'm only getting 28 mpg.
>
> In my opinion VW quality is not any worse than what we are getting
> with this Ford Focus -- and would you believe that the Focus is one of
> Ford's best selling vehicles. If I had my time to go over, we would
> have purchased a Jetta wagon.
>
> -Bryan
>
> --
> remove the "REMOVE" from my email to email

Keith , your a genius. Every word holds exactly true. This is a very
accurate , non offensive description of VWs. And all those niggling.
irritating , broken trim, plastic non stranding things irritate the **** out
of everybody that doesn't work on their cars, and wants stylish, reliable ,
presentable,and functional transportation. Its enough for people go
elsewhere. When they get tired of driving irritating rolling junk , that
just wont stop. This is why the customers leave. This exact issue is not
acceptable in a car where 5-6 year loans are the norm. This is the exact
same reason maintenance people delegate their vehicle to winter beater with
a heater status. They wont stop, but everything's broken . And these are the
same people who generally take offense to the bitching . But the cars are
paid for and that offsets the required rebuilding of the car maintenance.
Its not acceptable to people who go to the drive in oil change. No one buys
a new car expecting it to need anything for 3 years,except oil ,gas and tire
rotations. That's the industry standard.
"Keith Loyd" > wrote in message
. net...
> My Jetta has been mostly reliable for 9 years and 180k miles and I have no
> immediate plans to sell it. However, keep in mind that VW's have always
> had a kind of sliding scale of reliability.
>
> Mission critical systems used in German models (engine, manual
> transmissions) are highly reliable, atleast as good as the Japs, even
> bulletproof. Their old 8 valve gas 4 cyl. motor really needed to have
> enough oil and it would go forever, not even good oil, not even the right
> oil, just enough oil.
>
> Automatic transmissions, less common with the European models, are less
> reliable, less of a good idea if you ever tow stuff, and get more recalls.
> In VW's defense, this may be true of automatic vs. manual transmissions in
> general.
>
> Electric components (power windows, locks, alarms, pollution control
> sensor bits that set off the check engine light but wont leave you
> stranded), seat tilt knobs, interior plastic is not nearly up to Toyota
> standards. You should expect more plastic trim falling off, electrical
> gremlins, and many little niggling cosmetic problems as a VW hits 10 years
> of age. My friends' 10-15 year old corollas have less trouble of this
> type. This problem can be partially avoided by getting a stripped model
> with less of these extra features.
>
> On a more charitable note, my TDI has towed 2500lb+ trailers all over the
> damn place with no complaints, has its original clutch, went to Alaska
> twice (from Texas), and it is easy to beat the EPA 41/49 mpg of my year.
> Note - my car was slightly less powerful, lighter and smaller than the
> current model, hence the better mileage.
>
>
>

On 2006-07-13, none2u > wrote:
>
> The Ford Focus is a fine example of what's wrong with Ford. And kinda =
> invalidates your argument. It is their bestseller, but that doesn't =
> matter. Because they eliminated their own better cars from their own =
> market. And its not compared to Fords Euro lineup. It is the most =
> recalled car in the history of Ford Motor Company. I suspect if you knew =
> that you wouldn't of bought one, unless you had too. Its not better then =

Well actually, mine is a 2003. There has only been one recall on my
model year and that was last fall for trivial problem with
weatherstripping along the back seat doors. Now, perhaps there should
be a recall for my brake problem. I don't know if others with the 2003
model year are having those problems or not. 99% of the Focus recalls
you mention are only on the 2000 and/or 2001 models. Having said
that, I still stick to my opinion that VW is better than the GM, Ford,
and Chrysler. Also, this Focus is just one example. I also think
that VWs are better than the Buick and the Oldsmobile I have also owned.


> course, I see, I've ****ed somebody off again. I'm not apologizing, =

You must have me confused with somebody else. You didn't **** me off.
In fact, I stated in my previous post on this issue that I understood
what you were saying and that I agreed with you regarding VW vs. Toyota.
If the original poster is deadset on Toyota quality, then he probably
won't get a VW. However, if he is quite comfortable with the quality of
autos produced by the "Big Three", then I believe he will be fine
with a VW. Besides, it all comes down to what he values most. I run
high concentrations of biodiesel in my VW, just as the original poster
mentioned that he is interested in doing. And I plan on doing that in
my next car also. And in the US, if you want a diesel passenger car,
VW is essentially the only game in town.

Cheers,
Bryan

--
remove the "REMOVE" from my email to email

I will add a positive experience. I bought a 2002 Golf GLS TDI in November
'01, brand new, 16 miles on it. I kept it for 2 years and 30K miles. I had
essentially ZERO problems with it. I had one front wheel bearing replaced
under warranty, it was making a very faint rubbing noise. Simply had it done
at the 20K service.The car was brilliant, returned an average of 47mpg over
the 30K, even with my lead footed driving style. Smooth, quiet, and
comfortable. Only reason I sold it was that I stopped driving all the time
(and getting reimbursed) for work. Once the company was no longer paying for
the car, I couldn't justify having that much money tied up in one car. I sold
it for $15500, having paid $20K even. Not bad. I am still occasionally in
touch with the guy who bought it, it has continued to be a great car, nothing
more than normal maintenance/wear items.

To put this in perspective, one of my friends bought a V6 Honda Accord the
same month I bought my Golf. He has had all kinds of issues with it, including
a lunched automatic transmission at 60K miles. You roll the dice and take your
chances.

Kevin Rhodes
Westbrook, ME
'00 Saab 9-5 SE V6t Wagon
'92 Saab 900T Convertible
'91 BMW 318is
'74 Triumph Spitfire
Sundry Vdubs in my past...