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#62
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:56:55 GMT, (Brent P)
wrote: >In article >, Dave Head wrote: >> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:08:18 GMT, (Brent P) >> wrote: >> >>>In article >, Dave Head wrote: >>>> OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my left rear >>>> at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around and I'm an >>>> _enabler_ for not accelerating or braking. >>> >>> >>>Um no. an _enabler_ is a person who stops/slows all the traffic behind >>>him by letting a shoulder passer or some other MFFY type in. >> >> An enabler is someone who allows a dangerous situation to exist when they could >> do something about it. That would be someone in the right lane, allowing some >> a-hole to pace him for mile after mile, or worse, allowing him to catch the >> next slower car ahead, predictably slowing down, and creating at least a 3-car >> clump. > >That's something different, not an enabler. > >>>> Then we both catch a slower car, I get slowed down to 58 mph or whatever, and >>>> you get 2 cars in the right lane plus the duckling doing the LLB thing. So, if >>>> I stay in the right lane, things just get worse for everybody. > >>>> At least when I drive left, the duckling is scraped off periodically by the >>>> slower car in the right lane, and other people can pass me just fine... on the >>>> right. > >>>And if you come across the slower car in the left lane it's even WORSE. > >> No, I pass 'em on the right, in a heartbeat. With any luck, the duckling who >> is tailgating will decide to tailgate the other guy in a left lane, and I'll be >> rid of him. > >> And, there's so many more slower cars in the right lane, the situation where >> there's a right lane duckling when I catch someone slower in the left lane is a >> rare occurrence. When I see that coming up, I generally slow down gradually a >> few mph, then nail the gas and get back to my 7 over the limit much quicker >> than the duckling, so then I can get right and pass the other guy in the left >> lane without cutting off the duckling either. > >Not if somebody is there. Many times when I need to pass somebody like >you, he comes across an even SLOWER LLB, and the right lane has a couple >people who are where they belong making passing on the right impossible. > >How do you deal with this? > >-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >++] [YOU] [LLB] >-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >+] [+++] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] [===] >-----------------------------------------------------------------------> > [+++] [===] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] >-----------------------------------------------------------------------> > >Assume SL = 55mph > >Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 60mph >Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 66mph >[YOU] are doing 62 mph. The LLB is doing 60mph. >[+++] and others coming up to this clog are doing 68mph or more. > >Tell me, how are you improving safety and road flow here? >You are about to be cut off by the [+++] your to right BTW. > >You're just another LLB who thinks he's going 'fast enough'. 1st of all, rt 3 E of Fredericksburg is not 3 lane, so most of what I've been basing these discussions on goes out the window. Truth is, that's too damn much traffic for me to be driving inside of. With a bunch of damn trucks catching me, and other traffic catching me, I'm probably going to conclude that there's little enforcement in whatever area this is, and will likely increase my speed to outrun this pack. If there's way too much traffic, I may elect to declare this to be lunch hour and stop at McDonalds until these guys get down the road 20 miles or so. There's somewhat of a chance that I'm going to decide to move across the 3 lanes and drop in behind the truck, if possible, and follow him out of there at 66 mph. 66 would be OK, since the cops are going to nail the truck, since the fines are bigger and that adds to the revenue stream. We all know how that works - I'd have the perfect shield. >>>> Fact is, there's gonna be an LLB one way or the other, most of the time. If I >>>> stay in the right lane, you won't be able to get around the LLB in the left >>>> lane. If _I_ am in the left lane, you _will_ be able to get around because the >>>> right lane will be clear, most of the time. > >>>You are just looking for excuses for driving badly because so many others >>>do. I can think of many more in the same vein, still doesn't make them >>>right. > >> It just makes me safer. I know this because I have fewer close calls, and also >> lower exposure to traffic tickets. > >Typical me-first-****-you. I keep telling you, I look out for number one. No one else is going to, and no one else is going to bleed for me if things go to hell. I'm just going to keep things from going to hell the best way I can. >Your convience, nothing more. **** everyone >else, **** the the road system, you have to be comfortable. Yep, safe and comfortable. When things start getting dangerous, I start getting uncomfortable. I'm going to keep myself comfortable and that's all there is to it. I'm not allowing people the opportunity to create situations where I have to zoom ahead, or hit the brakes and then get stuck in a clump of clueless people driving real close to each other because I'm now behind a _real_ LLB. Just ain't happenin'. >Multiply you >a few thousand times and that's why we have traffic jams much worse and >longer than they need to be. We have traffic jams 'cuz they don't build enough roads around here, that's all. Dave Head |
#63
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:57:19 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote: >On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:08:18 GMT, >(Brent P) wrote: > >>In article >, Dave Head wrote: >>> OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my left rear >>> at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around and I'm an >>> _enabler_ for not accelerating or braking. >> >>Um no. an _enabler_ is a person who stops/slows all the traffic behind >>him by letting a shoulder passer or some other MFFY type in. > >Of course he's an enabler. One car can only effectively block one lane >at a time; in order to block the entire road, it requires one car per >lane. The idiot who allows an LLB to drive next to him for mile after >mile is enabling the LLB to graduate into a rolling roadblock. Agree. I'm not allowing that to happen, either. Its just easier to keep from happeing if I'm driving left. >If you want to coin a better term than "enabler" to describe these >people, be my guest. Oh boy, another literary giant is bound to step forward... Dave Head |
#64
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:57:19 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote: >On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:08:18 GMT, >(Brent P) wrote: > >>In article >, Dave Head wrote: >>> OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my left rear >>> at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around and I'm an >>> _enabler_ for not accelerating or braking. >> >>Um no. an _enabler_ is a person who stops/slows all the traffic behind >>him by letting a shoulder passer or some other MFFY type in. > >Of course he's an enabler. One car can only effectively block one lane >at a time; in order to block the entire road, it requires one car per >lane. The idiot who allows an LLB to drive next to him for mile after >mile is enabling the LLB to graduate into a rolling roadblock. Agree. I'm not allowing that to happen, either. Its just easier to keep from happeing if I'm driving left. >If you want to coin a better term than "enabler" to describe these >people, be my guest. Oh boy, another literary giant is bound to step forward... Dave Head |
#65
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In article >, Dave Head wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:56:55 GMT, (Brent P) wrote: >>How do you deal with this? >> >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >>++] [YOU] [LLB] >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >>+] [+++] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] [===] >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> [+++] [===] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> >>Assume SL = 55mph >> >>Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 60mph >>Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 66mph >>[YOU] are doing 62 mph. The LLB is doing 60mph. >>[+++] and others coming up to this clog are doing 68mph or more. >> >>Tell me, how are you improving safety and road flow here? >>You are about to be cut off by the [+++] your to right BTW. >> >>You're just another LLB who thinks he's going 'fast enough'. > > 1st of all, rt 3 E of Fredericksburg is not 3 lane, so most of what I've been > basing these discussions on goes out the window. > Truth is, that's too damn much traffic for me to be driving inside of. That's LIGHT traffic for me. That's a common situation I come across. > With a > bunch of damn trucks catching me, and other traffic catching me, I'm probably > going to conclude that there's little enforcement in whatever area this is, and > will likely increase my speed to outrun this pack. If there's way too much > traffic, I may elect to declare this to be lunch hour and stop at McDonalds > until these guys get down the road 20 miles or so. Don't come to chicago. It's rarely better than that. > There's somewhat of a chance that I'm going to decide to move across the 3 > lanes and drop in behind the truck, if possible, and follow him out of there at > 66 mph. 66 would be OK, since the cops are going to nail the truck, since > the fines are bigger and that adds to the revenue stream. We all know how that > works - I'd have the perfect shield. I generally pick the middle lane and wait for a suitable gap to go around on the left or right. >>> It just makes me safer. I know this because I have fewer close calls, and also >>> lower exposure to traffic tickets. >>Typical me-first-****-you. > I keep telling you, I look out for number one. No one else is going to, and no > one else is going to bleed for me if things go to hell. I'm just going to keep > things from going to hell the best way I can. And thusly the system decays. |
#66
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In article >, Dave Head wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:56:55 GMT, (Brent P) wrote: >>How do you deal with this? >> >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >>++] [YOU] [LLB] >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >>+] [+++] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] [===] >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> [+++] [===] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> >>Assume SL = 55mph >> >>Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 60mph >>Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 66mph >>[YOU] are doing 62 mph. The LLB is doing 60mph. >>[+++] and others coming up to this clog are doing 68mph or more. >> >>Tell me, how are you improving safety and road flow here? >>You are about to be cut off by the [+++] your to right BTW. >> >>You're just another LLB who thinks he's going 'fast enough'. > > 1st of all, rt 3 E of Fredericksburg is not 3 lane, so most of what I've been > basing these discussions on goes out the window. > Truth is, that's too damn much traffic for me to be driving inside of. That's LIGHT traffic for me. That's a common situation I come across. > With a > bunch of damn trucks catching me, and other traffic catching me, I'm probably > going to conclude that there's little enforcement in whatever area this is, and > will likely increase my speed to outrun this pack. If there's way too much > traffic, I may elect to declare this to be lunch hour and stop at McDonalds > until these guys get down the road 20 miles or so. Don't come to chicago. It's rarely better than that. > There's somewhat of a chance that I'm going to decide to move across the 3 > lanes and drop in behind the truck, if possible, and follow him out of there at > 66 mph. 66 would be OK, since the cops are going to nail the truck, since > the fines are bigger and that adds to the revenue stream. We all know how that > works - I'd have the perfect shield. I generally pick the middle lane and wait for a suitable gap to go around on the left or right. >>> It just makes me safer. I know this because I have fewer close calls, and also >>> lower exposure to traffic tickets. >>Typical me-first-****-you. > I keep telling you, I look out for number one. No one else is going to, and no > one else is going to bleed for me if things go to hell. I'm just going to keep > things from going to hell the best way I can. And thusly the system decays. |
#67
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 06:43:59 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote: >On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:13:21 GMT, Dave Head > wrote: > >>I know, but then they shouldn't cite how "illegal" I am. Hell, we're all >>illegal on the road. > >Well, I guess that makes it OK then. As OK as anything else I guess. Get back to me when everyone's obeying all the other laws and then we'll talk. > >>As I keep saying, I'm looking out for number 1. > >MFFY. **** happens when people make rules that are counterproductive to safety and comfort both. Mix in some clueless people that want to latch onto other's locations and drive close to them, and all kindza nasty stuff becomes the rule. I'm not bleeding for someone else's notion of purity... Dave Head |
#68
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 06:43:59 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote: >On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:13:21 GMT, Dave Head > wrote: > >>I know, but then they shouldn't cite how "illegal" I am. Hell, we're all >>illegal on the road. > >Well, I guess that makes it OK then. As OK as anything else I guess. Get back to me when everyone's obeying all the other laws and then we'll talk. > >>As I keep saying, I'm looking out for number 1. > >MFFY. **** happens when people make rules that are counterproductive to safety and comfort both. Mix in some clueless people that want to latch onto other's locations and drive close to them, and all kindza nasty stuff becomes the rule. I'm not bleeding for someone else's notion of purity... Dave Head |
#69
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"Brent P" > wrote in message
news:5l6td.454740$wV.52597@attbi_s54... > In article >, Dave Head wrote: > > On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:08:18 GMT, (Brent P) > > wrote: > > > >>In article >, Dave Head wrote: > >>> OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my left rear > >>> at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around and I'm an > >>> _enabler_ for not accelerating or braking. > >> > >> > >>Um no. an _enabler_ is a person who stops/slows all the traffic behind > >>him by letting a shoulder passer or some other MFFY type in. > > > > An enabler is someone who allows a dangerous situation to exist when they could > > do something about it. That would be someone in the right lane, allowing some > > a-hole to pace him for mile after mile, or worse, allowing him to catch the > > next slower car ahead, predictably slowing down, and creating at least a 3-car > > clump. > > That's something different, not an enabler. > > >>> Then we both catch a slower car, I get slowed down to 58 mph or whatever, and > >>> you get 2 cars in the right lane plus the duckling doing the LLB thing. So, if > >>> I stay in the right lane, things just get worse for everybody. > > >>> At least when I drive left, the duckling is scraped off periodically by the > >>> slower car in the right lane, and other people can pass me just fine... on the > >>> right. > > >>And if you come across the slower car in the left lane it's even WORSE. > > > No, I pass 'em on the right, in a heartbeat. With any luck, the duckling who > > is tailgating will decide to tailgate the other guy in a left lane, and I'll be > > rid of him. > > > And, there's so many more slower cars in the right lane, the situation where > > there's a right lane duckling when I catch someone slower in the left lane is a > > rare occurrence. When I see that coming up, I generally slow down gradually a > > few mph, then nail the gas and get back to my 7 over the limit much quicker > > than the duckling, so then I can get right and pass the other guy in the left > > lane without cutting off the duckling either. > > Not if somebody is there. Many times when I need to pass somebody like > you, he comes across an even SLOWER LLB, and the right lane has a couple > people who are where they belong making passing on the right impossible. > > How do you deal with this? > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > ++] [YOU] [LLB] > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > +] [+++] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] [===] > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > [+++] [===] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > Assume SL = 55mph > > Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 60mph > Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 66mph > [YOU] are doing 62 mph. The LLB is doing 60mph. > [+++] and others coming up to this clog are doing 68mph or more. > [snip...] Simply put, [+++] and others coming up in the left lane need to ensure they are following at 2 to 3 seconds back from [YOU], who already has more than a reasonable following distance away from [LLB]. In the left lane, [+++] is already too close! So, if that means slowing down, then they need to slow down. Note that this also assumes that [LLB] will not merge left even though they are an LLB. The vehicle represented by [YOU] has no obligation to cut between [+++] and [===] in the center lane because it creates a dangerously close following distance between [+++] and [YOU] as well as [YOU] and [===] once that close-proximity lane change occurs. If th desired answer is that [YOU] needs accelerate to tailgate [LLB], or that [YOU] needs to merge right between [+++] and [===] in the center lane to accommodate other traffic that will eventually be slowed by the LLB, then that is essentially advocating MFFY driving with respect that it may force the other drivers to brake to create a larger gap in the lane to the right for their own safety. The other fundamental problem, of course, is that the following distances of most of the vehicles in that example are still too close. One semi-trailer = approxmately two car lengths, and the 2 to 3 seconds minimum following distance is much greater than two car lengths. So, the right answer, as I see it, is that once all the close-following traffic passes in the center lane, and a suitable SAFE gap is available, then [YOU] could merge right to pass [LLB] on the right, and allow the other traffic to inevitably tailgate [LLB]. It's okay to brake, you know, to maintain a consistent speed of flowing traffic. Even in a traffic jam situation, continously flowing traffic at 20mph is favorable to traffic that keeps going from 40mph down to 0mph at semi-regular intervals. Well, at least that's my opinion on this issue. |
#70
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"Brent P" > wrote in message
news:5l6td.454740$wV.52597@attbi_s54... > In article >, Dave Head wrote: > > On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:08:18 GMT, (Brent P) > > wrote: > > > >>In article >, Dave Head wrote: > >>> OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my left rear > >>> at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around and I'm an > >>> _enabler_ for not accelerating or braking. > >> > >> > >>Um no. an _enabler_ is a person who stops/slows all the traffic behind > >>him by letting a shoulder passer or some other MFFY type in. > > > > An enabler is someone who allows a dangerous situation to exist when they could > > do something about it. That would be someone in the right lane, allowing some > > a-hole to pace him for mile after mile, or worse, allowing him to catch the > > next slower car ahead, predictably slowing down, and creating at least a 3-car > > clump. > > That's something different, not an enabler. > > >>> Then we both catch a slower car, I get slowed down to 58 mph or whatever, and > >>> you get 2 cars in the right lane plus the duckling doing the LLB thing. So, if > >>> I stay in the right lane, things just get worse for everybody. > > >>> At least when I drive left, the duckling is scraped off periodically by the > >>> slower car in the right lane, and other people can pass me just fine... on the > >>> right. > > >>And if you come across the slower car in the left lane it's even WORSE. > > > No, I pass 'em on the right, in a heartbeat. With any luck, the duckling who > > is tailgating will decide to tailgate the other guy in a left lane, and I'll be > > rid of him. > > > And, there's so many more slower cars in the right lane, the situation where > > there's a right lane duckling when I catch someone slower in the left lane is a > > rare occurrence. When I see that coming up, I generally slow down gradually a > > few mph, then nail the gas and get back to my 7 over the limit much quicker > > than the duckling, so then I can get right and pass the other guy in the left > > lane without cutting off the duckling either. > > Not if somebody is there. Many times when I need to pass somebody like > you, he comes across an even SLOWER LLB, and the right lane has a couple > people who are where they belong making passing on the right impossible. > > How do you deal with this? > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > ++] [YOU] [LLB] > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > +] [+++] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] [===] > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > [+++] [===] [===] [SEMI-TRAILER] > -----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > Assume SL = 55mph > > Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 60mph > Right lane [===] and [SEMI-TRAILER] are doing 66mph > [YOU] are doing 62 mph. The LLB is doing 60mph. > [+++] and others coming up to this clog are doing 68mph or more. > [snip...] Simply put, [+++] and others coming up in the left lane need to ensure they are following at 2 to 3 seconds back from [YOU], who already has more than a reasonable following distance away from [LLB]. In the left lane, [+++] is already too close! So, if that means slowing down, then they need to slow down. Note that this also assumes that [LLB] will not merge left even though they are an LLB. The vehicle represented by [YOU] has no obligation to cut between [+++] and [===] in the center lane because it creates a dangerously close following distance between [+++] and [YOU] as well as [YOU] and [===] once that close-proximity lane change occurs. If th desired answer is that [YOU] needs accelerate to tailgate [LLB], or that [YOU] needs to merge right between [+++] and [===] in the center lane to accommodate other traffic that will eventually be slowed by the LLB, then that is essentially advocating MFFY driving with respect that it may force the other drivers to brake to create a larger gap in the lane to the right for their own safety. The other fundamental problem, of course, is that the following distances of most of the vehicles in that example are still too close. One semi-trailer = approxmately two car lengths, and the 2 to 3 seconds minimum following distance is much greater than two car lengths. So, the right answer, as I see it, is that once all the close-following traffic passes in the center lane, and a suitable SAFE gap is available, then [YOU] could merge right to pass [LLB] on the right, and allow the other traffic to inevitably tailgate [LLB]. It's okay to brake, you know, to maintain a consistent speed of flowing traffic. Even in a traffic jam situation, continously flowing traffic at 20mph is favorable to traffic that keeps going from 40mph down to 0mph at semi-regular intervals. Well, at least that's my opinion on this issue. |
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