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#1
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Sanity Check
Hi all,
I haven't posted for awhile, my project car was stabled for the winter. 72 SB. But it's back out and I just got it legal finally so now I'm going to start driving it. So that's why I would ask for your feedback on this issue, just to get ideas. I'm slightly concerned that it could be something critical and some of you I am sure have enough experience to identify possibilities or issue warnings. Basically what it does is that it does extra clicking when you start it. It starts fine and runs fine. But at first it seems kind of like the starter doesn't disengage. Also, the clicking is kind of intermittent and not predictable, or IE sort of random, so it's not like a consistent clicking I would expect every engine rotation or something. It's more like the kind of clicking you would get if something is really loose and so only contacts whatever it's knocking when the random vibrations send the two things together. So I am thinking it may be the starter solenoid is not DISengaging. Normally if your starter solenoid goes bad or you don't have sufficient current to the solenoid coil you will get a "click" instead of a crank when you try to start it. But my problem seems to be the opposite. It clicks a lot when you crank it over as if the teeth are having trouble mating with the flywheel. Then it seems to mate and the engine starts. Then after the engine starts (which is right away without incident) it clicks for a couple minutes after that (as if the solenoid doesn't quickly disengage or something). Actually it's probably more like an extra 15 to 30 seconds that the clicking remains not a "couple minutes". I don't think it takes that long. So I wonder if in my case the starter SRING may be old and doesn't any longer return the solenoid plunger to "home" correctly. After it runs for a minute it works it's way back out of trouble. Has anyone heard of that happening? I don't know if that's it at all, it could be something else, which is why I would ask for your ideas and I'll look at it this weekend. As history, I had to replace the rear main seal and clutch last fall and had some trouble with that. I don't know what went wrong but I had to separate the engine from the car 3 times. each time I looked everything over and found nothing wrong, put it all back together and had some trouble with the clutch engaging correctly. The last time it was no different but for some reason it went together ok the last time. Except the knocking sound everything else is fine. I think the knocking may have shown up at this time but it's hard to say for sure. I didn't run the engine much before that due to the rear main leak being quite bad. I also solved an issue with my belt flipping (warped pulleys were replaced). And my fan was rubbing my shroud. Most of my alternator belt and alignment problems were because the engine was from a baja and the tin was all missing so I had fit on aftermarket tin. It was not as well fitting as one would hope but I think it's all ok now. I bought this car when I was 17 or so and I'm now 30 so it's been a long project, but from what I recall the guy who I bought the baja engine from said it was "just rebuilt". That's why I'm willing to put the effort into it. Who knows if that's true and if it craps out I'll just get something better. But if he was right and it should give a bunch more miles then I obviously want to take care of it and learn the vw zen on this engine before I shell out cash for another. I have replaced the carb and diz and I put in electronic ignition and set the timing and it runs great and passed emissions with flying colors. So I don't suspect any problems with those new components. Also it was clicking before I did all that anyway. I have not yet adjusted the valves but I plan to do so soon. I wonder if the clicking could be the rods due to a loose valve or bad clearance? If so I know that's not good. I've only driven it a couple of miles. I don't think it's a real engine knock type sound since to me it seems to have something to do with the starter but I don't have that much experience so I could easy be wrong. So anyway if you have feedback let me know. I know it can be hard to identify what "that knock" is when someone posts on the net like this. But the key I think is that it seems associated with the starter, or maybe it's just when the engine is cold. Thanks, Chronologic |
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#2
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Sanity Check
I found this website and was checking out the sounds:
John Muir's Engine Sounds and more... http://home.arcor.de/silke.fokken/sounds/ The sound on this line: Loose Flywheel (115 KB) - similar to a broken crankshaft. Either way, pull the engine. Odds are you're looking at crankshaft damage anyway...meaning overhaul time. Actually sounds a bit like my sound. Also, I did have trouble with the clutch/flywheel as I mentioned. So I'm putting fairly high odds on this being it. Hopefully it's not too late to correct. I may find buggered up dowels and alignment holes if that's it. Joy. I torqued it as good as I could muster, but I could have gotten it wrong. I'm still looking for feedback if you have any. This is probably it but may not be. Chronologic |
#3
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Sanity Check
Chronologic wrote:
> I found this website and was checking out the sounds: > > John Muir's Engine Sounds and more... > http://home.arcor.de/silke.fokken/sounds/ > > The sound on this line: > > Loose Flywheel (115 KB) - similar to a broken crankshaft. Either way, > pull the engine. Odds are you're looking at crankshaft damage > anyway...meaning overhaul time. > > Actually sounds a bit like my sound. Also, I did have trouble with the > clutch/flywheel as I mentioned. So I'm putting fairly high odds on > this being it. Hopefully it's not too late to correct. I may find > buggered up dowels and alignment holes if that's it. Joy. I torqued > it as good as I could muster, but I could have gotten it wrong. > > I'm still looking for feedback if you have any. This is probably it > but may not be. > > Chronologic > Remove the starter. Push start the car. Still clicks? Speedy Jim http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/ |
#4
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Sanity Check
Good suggestion Speedy Jim. Implication being that if it still clicks
then it's probably... my flywheel? At least I would know it ISN'T the starter!! As you can see I think the flywheel is suspect, but anything else come to mind, if it isn't the starter? Thanks, Chronologic |
#5
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Sanity Check
Well here is an update, so this thread is complete with the question
AND the answer. Last night I pulled the engine again, found that the flywheel was in fact loose. I tightened it with this cool 9X torque converter I got from aircooled.net, put everything back, and to my satisfaction and joy, the noise was gone. John Muir's "engine sounds" were right on. It can be kind of hard to hear it on a recording, and an old recording at that, but the sound was dead on and it helped me realize the problem that I wouldn't have guessed otherwise. Everything looked ok as far as the dowels and all that. It must not have been too loose and I didn't drive it much at all so I was lucky. Hoorah! Did a 5 mile road test and filled up the tank while I was at it. Everything in order at last. Note to other ameteurs: This torque business is serious business. My torque wrench only goes to 100lbs so when I originally did it I just did it as tight as I "dared". That was clearly not enough. With the 9x converter I could pretty easily find 30lbs on my wrench (which would be 270). I gave it about 35 just to be sure (have to be careful not to go over though with a 9x muliplier). Let me again express my appreciation to the existence of a message group like this and the kind people on it for being out there and being willing to offer suggestions. This kind of resource was not possible 10 years ago and it's just completely awesome. Thanks, Chronlogic --Now with a bug of my own doing on the road and thrilled about it. |
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