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Investigation Vowed in L.A. Shooting



 
 
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  #41  
Old May 12th 05, 03:03 AM
The Real Bev
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Jim Yanik wrote:
>
> Ashton Crusher > wrote in
> :
>
> > On 10 May 2005 09:58:18 -0700, "N8N" > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>MidnightDad wrote:
> >>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=744016
> >>>
> >>> LOS ANGELES May 10, 2005 - Authorities promised a full
> >>investigation
> >>> Tuesday into why deputies riddled a sport utility vehicle and a
> >>> Compton neighborhood with 120 bullets after the driver led them on a
> >>> chase, wounding an unarmed driver and possibly striking a deputy.
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>
> >>Um, ****ing DUH? the cops got a shots fired call and when they
> >>attempted to pull over a vehicle fitting the description of the perp's
> >>vehicle the driver ran for it.

> >
> > Except he had no gun and had fired no shots and they did NOT have a
> > positive ID. Firing on him was NOT warranted anymore then they would
> > fire on a car that speed away when they stopped if for a traffic
> > ticket.

>
> He was not "speeding away",he was trying to ram police in front of him.
> Clear justification for shooting him.


Did you even read the article?

"When deputies tried to stop Hayes' white Chevrolet Tahoe, he led them on a
12-minute chase at speeds of up to 35 mph, Baca said. Patrol cars tried to box
in the SUV, but it drove onto a lawn and then backed into the street toward
three deputies, authorities said."

Yeah, it's perfectly obvious that a guy backing up is going to hit ramming
speed Real Soon Now.

Photo caption: "Los Angeles County Sheriff Commander Lee Baca takes questions
from the media about a videotaped deputy shooting in Compton, during a news
conference Monday, May 9, 2005, at the Sheriffs headquarters in Los Angeles. A
high speed chase ended Monday in a barrage of gunfire that injured two men,
including a Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy who may have been caught in
the crossfire of other deputies."

"High speed chase"? Give me a break. Maybe on foot or on a bicycle, but it
probably wasn't even worth a speeding ticket.

The guy sounds dumb and disoriented, but not violent. The local cops used to
be respectable. Not any more.

--
Cheers,
Bev
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= *=*
It is just a bicycle. It is not dedication and bugs
in your teeth and dust and rain and mud. It is not
madness and harmony and glory and rhythm. It is not
muscle and flesh and sweat and lycra and wind.
It is just a bicycle. -- Bianchi
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= *=*
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  #42  
Old May 12th 05, 03:55 AM
Harry K
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John David Galt wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
> > If they're obviously fleeing (and in this case it sounds like they

were,
> > not just "driving to a safe location) why the hell not? My only
> > question is why it took so many rounds to stop them. Geez, why

don't we
> > take away the officers' guns and just issue them bullhorns so they

can
> > politely ask drivers to pull over.

>
> There are perfectly good tactics for stopping a suspect like that
> which don't endanger bystanders nearly as much. The obvious one here
> would be to surround him with cop vehicles, which then gradually

stop.
> Maybe a few parked cars get crunched in the process, but nobody gets
> shot.
>
> What a bunch of Barney Fifes.


Unfortunately, forcing a vehicle to stop by use of barricades has been
ruled 'deadly force' by the courts. The cops have to always leave an
out when setting up barricades to stop a speeding car. Not sure about
your suggested technique of 'rolling roadblock'.

Harry K

  #43  
Old May 12th 05, 01:32 PM
Joe Bramblett, KD5NRH
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The Real Bev wrote:

> including a Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy who may have been caught in
> the crossfire of other deputies."


*May* have been? What other explanations are they trying to push? Did the
suspect just happen to have one slug with him and throw it really hard
at the deputy?



  #44  
Old May 12th 05, 04:38 PM
Jim Yanik
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"Harry K" > wrote in
ups.com:

>
> John David Galt wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> > If they're obviously fleeing (and in this case it sounds like they

> were,
>> > not just "driving to a safe location) why the hell not? My only
>> > question is why it took so many rounds to stop them. Geez, why

> don't we
>> > take away the officers' guns and just issue them bullhorns so they

> can
>> > politely ask drivers to pull over.

>>
>> There are perfectly good tactics for stopping a suspect like that
>> which don't endanger bystanders nearly as much. The obvious one here
>> would be to surround him with cop vehicles, which then gradually

> stop.
>> Maybe a few parked cars get crunched in the process, but nobody gets
>> shot.
>>
>> What a bunch of Barney Fifes.

>
> Unfortunately, forcing a vehicle to stop by use of barricades has been
> ruled 'deadly force' by the courts.


Do you have a cite for this?

> The cops have to always leave an
> out when setting up barricades to stop a speeding car.


Why? Maybe to let others depart the stop zone before the suspect arrives?



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
  #45  
Old May 13th 05, 01:42 AM
Harry K
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Posts: n/a
Default


Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Harry K" > wrote in
> ups.com:
>
> >
> > John David Galt wrote:
> >> Nate Nagel wrote:
> >> > If they're obviously fleeing (and in this case it sounds like

they
> > were,
> >> > not just "driving to a safe location) why the hell not? My only
> >> > question is why it took so many rounds to stop them. Geez, why

> > don't we
> >> > take away the officers' guns and just issue them bullhorns so

they
> > can
> >> > politely ask drivers to pull over.
> >>
> >> There are perfectly good tactics for stopping a suspect like that
> >> which don't endanger bystanders nearly as much. The obvious one

here
> >> would be to surround him with cop vehicles, which then gradually

> > stop.
> >> Maybe a few parked cars get crunched in the process, but nobody

gets
> >> shot.
> >>
> >> What a bunch of Barney Fifes.

> >
> > Unfortunately, forcing a vehicle to stop by use of barricades has

been
> > ruled 'deadly force' by the courts.

>
> Do you have a cite for this?
>
> > The cops have to always leave an
> > out when setting up barricades to stop a speeding car.

>
> Why? Maybe to let others depart the stop zone before the suspect

arrives?
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net


Nope, no cite. I was curious having seen it somewhere and also having
heard it being applied while listening to the scanner. Asked the
question in a BS session with county deputies. They confirmed that
yes, the (IIRC) supreme court ruled that a total road block is use of
deadly force. I certainly don't agree with it. Looks to me like a
fleeing subject crashing into a clearly visible roadblock is only
committing suicide by cop.

Harry K

  #46  
Old May 13th 05, 06:32 AM
John David Galt
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>> There are perfectly good tactics for stopping a suspect like that
>> which don't endanger bystanders nearly as much. The obvious one here
>> would be to surround him with cop vehicles, which then gradually stop.
>>
>> Maybe a few parked cars get crunched in the process, but nobody gets
>> shot.
>>
>> What a bunch of Barney Fifes.


> Unfortunately, forcing a vehicle to stop by use of barricades has been
> ruled 'deadly force' by the courts. The cops have to always leave an
> out when setting up barricades to stop a speeding car. Not sure about
> your suggested technique of 'rolling roadblock'.


And shooting at the car 200+ times isn't? Clearly the decision to use
deadly force had already been made. We're just discussing how to do it
without needlessly endangering bystanders. This isn't rocket science.
  #47  
Old May 13th 05, 03:02 PM
Harry K
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John David Galt wrote:
> >> There are perfectly good tactics for stopping a suspect like that
> >> which don't endanger bystanders nearly as much. The obvious one

here
> >> would be to surround him with cop vehicles, which then gradually

stop.
> >>
> >> Maybe a few parked cars get crunched in the process, but nobody

gets
> >> shot.
> >>
> >> What a bunch of Barney Fifes.

>
> > Unfortunately, forcing a vehicle to stop by use of barricades has

been
> > ruled 'deadly force' by the courts. The cops have to always leave

an
> > out when setting up barricades to stop a speeding car. Not sure

about
> > your suggested technique of 'rolling roadblock'.

>
> And shooting at the car 200+ times isn't? Clearly the decision to

use
> deadly force had already been made. We're just discussing how to do

it
> without needlessly endangering bystanders. This isn't rocket

science.

At the time of the shooting there was no 'fleeing vehicle' thus no need
for a roadblock or time to set one up. From what I saw it looked like
he was pretty well boxed in anyhow. I did a quick and dirty google on
roadblocks this morning. Didn't find any discussing leaving an opening
but several equating roadblock=lethal force.

Harry K

  #48  
Old May 13th 05, 03:04 PM
Harry K
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Posts: n/a
Default


John David Galt wrote:
> >> There are perfectly good tactics for stopping a suspect like that
> >> which don't endanger bystanders nearly as much. The obvious one

here
> >> would be to surround him with cop vehicles, which then gradually

stop.
> >>
> >> Maybe a few parked cars get crunched in the process, but nobody

gets
> >> shot.
> >>
> >> What a bunch of Barney Fifes.

>
> > Unfortunately, forcing a vehicle to stop by use of barricades has

been
> > ruled 'deadly force' by the courts. The cops have to always leave

an
> > out when setting up barricades to stop a speeding car. Not sure

about
> > your suggested technique of 'rolling roadblock'.

>
> And shooting at the car 200+ times isn't? Clearly the decision to

use
> deadly force had already been made. We're just discussing how to do

it
> without needlessly endangering bystanders. This isn't rocket

science.

At the time of the shooting there was no 'fleeing vehicle' thus no need
for a roadblock or time to set one up. From what I saw it looked like
he was pretty well boxed in anyhow. I did a quick and dirty google on
roadblocks this morning. Didn't find any discussing leaving an opening
but several equating roadblock=lethal force.

Harry K

  #49  
Old May 13th 05, 03:07 PM
Harry K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


John David Galt wrote:
> >> There are perfectly good tactics for stopping a suspect like that
> >> which don't endanger bystanders nearly as much. The obvious one

here
> >> would be to surround him with cop vehicles, which then gradually

stop.
> >>
> >> Maybe a few parked cars get crunched in the process, but nobody

gets
> >> shot.
> >>
> >> What a bunch of Barney Fifes.

>
> > Unfortunately, forcing a vehicle to stop by use of barricades has

been
> > ruled 'deadly force' by the courts. The cops have to always leave

an
> > out when setting up barricades to stop a speeding car. Not sure

about
> > your suggested technique of 'rolling roadblock'.

>
> And shooting at the car 200+ times isn't? Clearly the decision to

use
> deadly force had already been made. We're just discussing how to do

it
> without needlessly endangering bystanders. This isn't rocket

science.

In the instant discussion there was no 'fleeing vehicle'(at the time of
the shooting) thus no need for a roadblock of any kind nor even time to
set one up. I did a quick and dirty google on use of road block this
morning. Found several that equated a roadblock with lethal force but
couldn't find any discussing leaving an opening.

Harry K

  #50  
Old May 13th 05, 03:31 PM
dr.benway
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Posts: n/a
Default

It is their marksmanship that is the real question. Four hits out of
120 shots fired. They did, however manage to riddle a second floor
apartment with bullets.

 




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