sparkplug

Retired VIP wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:39:59 GMT, Jim Chandler > wrote:
<...>

> Not to be a smart-a-- here but how will he get the oil soaked cloth
> into the cylinder?

Not to be a smart ass, but what is a smart-a--? You can say ass here.

In the old days, my father used to grind crankshafts and bore cylinders
in the chassis. It created a bit of a cleanup problem, I am sure.

Jeff

>
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:27:07 -0400, Retired VIP >
wrote:


>
>Not to be a smart-a-- here but how will he get the oil soaked cloth
>into the cylinder?
>

Please, no difficult questions--this is a group dedicated to 4x4
people!

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:26:59 GMT, NoOne N Particular
> wrote:

>
>>
>> If any really little stuff remains, I would expect it to be blown out the
>> exhaust valve when the engine is started, causing no harm.
>>
>
>I would be very leery about just letting chips blow out the spark plug hole. It
>may work and it may not. I had a spark plug insulator crack while I was driving
>the car once, and the chip got caught between the exhaust valve face, and the
>valve seat. Put a nice big chip in the valve and I had to pull the head to
>replace the valve. I realize this is a different scenario, but it shows what
>can happen with a small piece of loose insulator.
>
>You will most likely get all the big pieces out by vacuuming, etc., so you
>probably won't have anything like this happen. But even small amounts of debris
>MIGHT get caught on the valve face and COULD result in the valve not sealing
>properly when closed. Not only that, but some small pieces MIGHT get caught
>between the piston and the cylinder wall which could yield some nice scratches
>in your cylinder wall with resulting loss of compression and oil seepage into
>the combustion chamber.
>
>But if it comes down to a few hundred dollars to pull the head to remove the
>plug, or just a few dollars to try something else . . .your call. Is the car
>worth enough to do the job properly, or is it an old beater that you just need
>to get running for a while?
>
>Just my $.02
>
>Wayne
>
PULL THE HEAD. And put antiseize on the plugs when you put them back
in (just a WEE bit)

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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:56:50 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
> wrote:

>semidemiurge wrote:
>> My mechanic broke off a sparkplug trying to remove it from the engine
>> on my 4runner and I am trying to research possible solutions. It
>> broke off halfway down the threads, so that half of the bottom metal
>> part is still in the engine head. I was thinking using and easyoff
>> extractor but worry about metal pieces includint the electrode tip
>> falling into the cylinder. Anyone have ideas or experience with this?
>> thanks, rick
>>
>
>Just for ****s and grins, how many of you have ever encountered one of
>the early Champion spark plugs which comes apart for cleaning?
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/jeff/plug.html
>
>Mine was pretty beat up when I found it at an antique store in Minnesota.
>
>Jeff

Hey Jeff,

Never had seen what you have, but some aircraft engine plugs come
apart too.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:57:18 GMT, "Danny G." >
wrote:

>
>"semidemiurge" > wrote in message ups.com...
>> My mechanic broke off a sparkplug trying to remove it from the engine
>> on my 4runner and I am trying to research possible solutions. It
>> broke off halfway down the threads, so that half of the bottom metal
>> part is still in the engine head. I was thinking using and easyoff
>> extractor but worry about metal pieces includint the electrode tip
>> falling into the cylinder. Anyone have ideas or experience with this?
>> thanks, rick
>>
>
>
>Something is wrong with that story.
>
>Put a old plug in your bench vise and try to do that
>with a hammer and chisel to see what I mean.
>Drilling or even beating out the center of a plug when
>it's installed would be a good trick. Even in a vice its
>real tuff.
>
>
>GL
>Dan
>
Long reach plug, threaded only half way COULD break off part way down
- wrong plug for the application - Only seen it on AC plugs.

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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:28:27 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
> wrote:

>
>"Mike Romain" wrote: (clip) I would also have the cylinder on the intake or
>exhaust stroke so there would maybe be a chance of a shopvac sucking out
>any crumbs that fell in because the open valve would allow air flow with
>the suction on the plug hole.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I think it might be better to be near bottom-dead-center on the power stroke
>or the compression stroke, so both valves are closed, and the debris is well
>below the spark plug hole. That gives you a good angle for picking up any
>debris. Use a suction tube that is smaller than the park plug hole, so air
>can flow in.
>
TDC on overlap - both valves open to allow LOTS of air flow and keep
the chips close to the hole so the airflow can pull them out.

Grease whatever tools you use so chips stick to them. If drilling,
drill SLOW and "peck" so you pull all the chips out of the hole with
the greased bit.

But to be SAFE, pull the head.

I've seem a fair number of tapered seat plugs (specifically FORD, but
also a few others) snap off at the top of the threads. Some AC 14mm
long thread plugs were threaded ONLY on the bottom half. I've seen
these snap off low in the hole as well. In over 38 years of wrenching
I've broken a few plugs off - but VERY few. I learned early to take it
easy, use lots of good penetrant, and take my time. It ALWAYS takes
longer to take out a broken plug than to finesse it out in the first
place (possible exception is an air cooled flathead)

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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:56:50 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
> wrote:

>semidemiurge wrote:
>> My mechanic broke off a sparkplug trying to remove it from the engine
>> on my 4runner and I am trying to research possible solutions. It
>> broke off halfway down the threads, so that half of the bottom metal
>> part is still in the engine head. I was thinking using and easyoff
>> extractor but worry about metal pieces includint the electrode tip
>> falling into the cylinder. Anyone have ideas or experience with this?
>> thanks, rick
>>
>
>Just for ****s and grins, how many of you have ever encountered one of
>the early Champion spark plugs which comes apart for cleaning?
>
>http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/jeff/plug.html
>
>Mine was pretty beat up when I found it at an antique store in Minnesota.
>
>Jeff
Many aircraft plugs were made that way.

--
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Retired VIP wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:39:59 GMT, Jim Chandler > wrote:
>
>
>>semidemiurge wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My mechanic broke off a sparkplug trying to remove it from the engine
>>>on my 4runner and I am trying to research possible solutions. It
>>>broke off halfway down the threads, so that half of the bottom metal
>>>part is still in the engine head. I was thinking using and easyoff
>>>extractor but worry about metal pieces includint the electrode tip
>>>falling into the cylinder. Anyone have ideas or experience with this?
>>>thanks, rick
>>>
>>
>>If he managed to break a sparkplug off down into the threads, you have a
>>lot more to worry about than a few metal flakes getting into the engine.
>> That plug must be welded in. I've NEVER, in all my years of working
>>on cars and trucks, seen the metal part of a plug break. The ceramic,
>>yes, the metal, no. If you have to get crazy with it, an oil soaked rag
>>in the top of the cylinder, with the piston at TDC should take care of
>>most particles. After you get the remains of the plug out, carefully
>>remove the oil soaked cloth. The metal shavings, for the most part,
>>should come out with it. If all else fails, he will have to remove the
>>head and drill it out and retap the head.
>>
>>Jim Chandler
>
>
> Not to be a smart-a-- here but how will he get the oil soaked cloth
> into the cylinder?
>
>
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You use a strip of cloth about two inches wide. Soak it in motor oil
and insert it through what hole there is. I assume that there is a hole
since spark plugs are usually hollow down by the threads and that is
where he said the plug broke off, midway down the threads. The
assumption here is that the center core of the plug came out and he just
has the metal threads in the plug hole. Otherwise this trick won't
work. I used it one time and it worked quite well.

Jim

According to PeterD >:

[ ... ]

> Please, no difficult questions--this is a group dedicated to 4x4
> people!

Actually -- it is cross-posted to three newsgroups:

rec.crafts.metalworking
rec.autos.4x4
alt.autos.toyota

if you look at the "Newgroups: " header.

And in at least some of the newsgroups, difficult questions are
standard.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: > | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jul 18, 10:37 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" >
wrote:
> "jor" > wrote in messagenews:2007071806510216807-jor@jorcom...
>
> >> I would worry LESS about the chips and metal pieces falling inside the
> >> cylinder and MORE about how I would remove the hardened piece of easy-out
> >> that breaks off in the head.......................
>
> >> They SHOULD be called "hole-pluggers"..........
>
> > Man, you can say that again! I've used "easy"-outs a bunch of times and
> > most turned into, as you say, hole pluggers. Then you really have a
> > problem: How do you drill out that hardenen steel? Interestingly enough,
> > apparently I never learn the lesson. Each time I have a broken bolt, I
> > look at my collection of easy-outs and think, maybe this time...
>
> 'Never hear of a "left-hand drill"? For many extraction jobs, that's the
> ticket. If sized appropriately, it doesn't tend to expand the item in the
> hole, rather, it "grips" from the top.
>
> LLoyd


I agree, the left hand drill is best way to start working on many
broken fasteners. If you are going to have to drill it anyway, you
might as well use the left hand drill and give it a chance to come out
before you do anything else.

I've had fairly good luck with easy-outs. You have to know when and
how to use them, though. If a screw snapped because it bottomed out
in the hole or was cross-threaded or corroded into place, the easy-out
is not as likely to be effective as it is if the screw failed due to
shearing or tension. The most common mistake people make with easy-
outs is using too large a size. The thinner the walls of the broken
screw are, the more likely the easy-out is to expand them and lock the
threads. While the larger easy-out is of course stronger, it's better
to first try a smaller size that will not expand the screw. There are
some non-tapered screw removers with straight splines that work
without expanding the screw.

It's hard to imagine why a spark plug would break in the middle of the
threads - usually the undercut at the shoulder is the weak area.

Two points in this thread got my attention:

1. Never-Seize. I've heard at least once that there are good reasons
NOT to use it on spark plug threads, but I can't remember what they
were. Yes or no?

2. Better to remove plugs hot or cold? Posters in this thread have
it both ways.

John Martin