Is the mechanic responsible?

"Kaz Kylheku" > wrote
>> On 2006-03-24, Elle >
>> wrote:
> But then, I'm not a multi-degreed, certified engineer, so
> WTF do I
> know.

You said it. Not me. Considering my gracious (and honest)
remarks earlier, you're way out of line, son.

I disagree with your "analysis," because vibrations, for
one, do loosen bolts. I'd try to break it down with you, but
I can see you don't have the command of the vocabulary here
to discuss this intelligently.

You're also not addressing my other points re being able to
/prove/ the guy didn't hit something or someone didn't
monkey with the bolt after the oil change or knowing the
meaning of the oil pressure light.

That's all the shop's lawyer (or just a technician smarter
than you) has to ask, ya know: "Sir, did you read the
owner's manual, and if you did, what part concerning the oil
pressure light did not make sense to you?... Sir, do you
have a mental disability?"

On 2006-03-24, Elle > wrote:

> Yup. Been changing oil in cars for over 20 years.

I've been doing it for 40!

> Do you reject that something could hit the drain plug and
> damage it?

Not at all. Seen it several times. Have you? What I am saying is
to hit the oil plug just right so as to loosen it without leaving any
tell-tale marks or damages anywhere near it is of such a remote
possiblitity as to be virtually impossible.

> I'm not saying it did. I'm arguing it's impossible to prove
> that it didn't.

Actually, it's quite easy. Lack of proof that it did happen is proof
out of hand.

I'd drop it before you lose what little credibility you have.

nb

"notbob" > wrote
> Actually, it's quite easy. Lack of proof that it did
> happen is proof
> out of hand.

I can't quite parse this, but if you're saying the courts do
not consider alternative explanations, weighing the
plausibility of them, for a phenomenon, then you're quite
mistaken.

> I'd drop it before you lose what little credibility you
> have.

I think the thread speaks for itself.

We disagree.

Elle wrote:
>
> "notbob" > wrote
> > On 2006-03-24, Elle >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> What's absurd about a rock hitting the drain plug and
> >> loosening it or damaging the threads?
> >
> > Any collision strong enough to rip a drain plug out of its
> > hole, or
> > even loosen a properly torqued plug, is enough to leave
> > visible
> > peripheral damage.
>
> The problem is you're speculating, not asserting provable
> facts.
>
> You can't prove that something didn't hit the drain plug and
> damage it or cause it to free; or that someone didn't get
> under there and free it; or that it's reasonable for a
> person to be clueless about the oil pressure warning light.
>
> Any one of those defeats the OP's argument IMO.



I gotta go with "notbob" on this one. If a road object was struck
involving the drain plug, peripheral damage should be evident and still
the plug would probably stay intact providing it was tightened properly.

JT

Grumpy AuContraire > wrote in
:

>
>
> Elle wrote:

<snip>


>> You can't prove that something didn't hit the drain plug and
>> damage it or cause it to free; or that someone didn't get
>> under there and free it; or that it's reasonable for a
>> person to be clueless about the oil pressure warning light.
>>
>> Any one of those defeats the OP's argument IMO.
>
>
>
> I gotta go with "notbob" on this one. If a road object was struck
> involving the drain plug, peripheral damage should be evident and still
> the plug would probably stay intact providing it was tightened properly.
>



In Hondas, as in just about ALL cars made after about 1960, oil pan drain
plugs are generally oriented towards the rear of the car, and placed
*above* the *lowest* point on the drain pan.

In order for a foreign object to rip the plug out of the sump, or displace
it enough to cause it to fall out or leak, it would have to be encountered
during impact occurring when the vehicle was in rearwards motion, and/or
the impact would have to be devastating enough to severely deform the sump.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On 2006-03-25, TeGGeR® > wrote:

> the impact would have to be devastating enough to severely deform the sump.

Yep. Having seen more than a few trashed oil pans/sumps in both autos
and motorcycles, I've never seen one that was missing its oil plug.
I've also seen at least one missing oil plug episode. No
crossthreading, no stripped threads, just gone. It's from not
tightening the damn thing, plain and simple.

nb

notbob > wrote in
:

> On 2006-03-25, TeGGeR® > wrote:
>
>> the impact would have to be devastating enough to severely deform the
>> sump.
>
> Yep. Having seen more than a few trashed oil pans/sumps in both autos
> and motorcycles, I've never seen one that was missing its oil plug.
> I've also seen at least one missing oil plug episode. No
> crossthreading, no stripped threads, just gone. It's from not
> tightening the damn thing, plain and simple.
>
> nb



Just once, I saw a no-plug thing. In that case, the plug had been finger-
tightened and the tech had forgot to torque it down. It fell out within
minutes of the customer leaving the shop.

Light came on, client (very wisely) immediately shut the motor down, garage
towed the car back and corrected the problem. End of story.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On 2006-03-25, TeGGeR® > wrote:
>
> Light came on, client (very wisely) immediately shut the motor down, garage
> towed the car back and corrected the problem. End of story.

yep!

notbob > wrote in
:

> On 2006-03-25, TeGGeR® > wrote:
>>
>> Light came on, client (very wisely) immediately shut the motor down,
>> garage towed the car back and corrected the problem. End of story.
>
> yep!



I had an oil problem once in a '75 Toyota Corolla in 1981 or 1982 (long
time ago, memory fails).

Light came on. I pulled over immediately. Oil was off the stick, and right
side of block was soaked.

What had happened was I had added a brass tee in order to hook up both the
OEM idiot light and an aftermarket gauge at the same time, and the tee had
broken away from the block, spewing oil everywhere.

It was Sunday, and in Ontario back then very few places were (allowed to
be) open on Sunday. Luckily I found one garage open. The attendant charged
me almost ten dollars for two quarts of oil (ouch!). I found a suitable
wood screw and a bit of gasket material in my toolbox. Combining all of
that, I made it home.

Car ran fine for many years afterwards.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Grumpy AuContraire" > wrote
> If a road object was struck
> involving the drain plug, peripheral damage should be
> evident and still
> the plug would probably stay intact providing it was
> tightened properly.

Begs the question of whether the guy could win in court
(small claims or otherwise), which has been my point (or
I've tried to make it clear that it's my point) all along.
This is about probabilities. You seem to be aware of this,
since you qualified your statement with "should" and
"probably." That's how I'd qualify discussion of whether the
drain plug could get knocked loose, too. Still, the problem
is proof. It's been weeks since the oil was changed. Too
much could have happened to justify blaming the shop. The OP
says this and that, but the problem is he can't prove any of
it. It's his word against the shop's.

Plus, there's still the whole issue of how the OP responded
when his low oil pressure light came on. How to respond to
that is crystal clear in the manual. The OP did not follow
those directions at all.

I know, I'm talking to the walls. I don't think many of us
are on the same page here at all.

Anyway, the OP seems determined to get money from the shop
for his major loss. Let's see how far he gets, though I fear
those of you urging him to pursue this further are going to
end up costing him more.

I can imagine how unhappy this young man is, though.
Thousands of dollars down the drain on a, well, youthful
mistake. We've all probably been there.