These problems normal for a 5-year-old Saturn?

In article >,
Echoes > wrote:

> Hello. Would you consider the problems listed below normal for a
> 5-year-old 1999 SL2 Saturn?

Shouldn't be.

> - Major(?) problems include getting the water pump replaced twice.
> They are saying I had to get it replaced against because I was over my
> 60K service by 8,000 miles.

DexCool(tm)! Regardless of what GM says, that orange crap is NOT good
for 100,000 miles. Oh sure, on paper it is - makes the EPA happy - but
in real life? No way. I'm taking a stab here and guessing that you
didn't maintain your cooling system - NOT your fault - you read the
manual which was vague on it.

> - Problem with alternator after 1 year of ownership

Saturns are reall hit/miss with this. It's weird, too, because some
people go forever, other go through them like candy. I don't know why.

> - Brakes, exhaust system after 5 years of ownership.

Brakes failing, or wearing out. If the latter, they are a 'wear item'.
The exhaust? If it rusted out while still under the EPA warrenty, you
should NOT have had to pay for it. And check - some states have a
longer than standard one (NY and Mass and Cali, among others).

> - Power window going out

*shrug*

> Question: Why am I seeing all of these problems after 5 years of
> ownership when my 1993 SL2 had 6 years with not as many problems? Was
> one of the mechanics correct in that she said that the 1993 Saturns
> were built better?

Maybe. Might be luck. I think the DexCrap in the cooling system is
probbably what's killing water pmps, though.

> Is this really par for the course, and I should just consider myself
> lucky with my 1993 Saturn?

My '93's been fine.

> Here is my Maintenance history (I have also gotten the standard oil
> change every 3000-5000 miles):

Well, with those changes, the motor should last forever

> --- 08/26/99 -- purchased car, about 1K miles already on it (one of
> the sales people had been driving it for personal use)

Uh oh. When I see 'personal use', I immediately think burnouts, hole
shots, racing everything in sight.....

> --- 1/23/03, 42269 miles, had water pump replaced as Saturn said it
> was leaking. Note: This was done at non-Saturn repair place (Clinton's
> Auto Service in Seattle, WA, have had good comments and praise about
> them)

What was the replacement? Gen-u-ine Saturn, reputable OEM, Taiwanese
special? The first two are good, the last is iffy at best. But still,
water pump at 42k miles - something's not right.

> --- 7/20/04, 60K service -- 68039 miles, and also had brakes fixed --
> $668

One heck of a fix - what happened?

> --- early month of August, had exhaust system and water pump replaced,
> $650

Ugh.

> Maybe. Might be luck. I think the DexCrap in the cooling system is
> probbably what's killing water pumps, though.
>

After 7 years and 150k miles on my fathers truck with the same dexcool
coolant from the factory I dont think so. What you never heard of
waterpumps going out repeatedly prior to Dexcool? I guess waterpumps
never failed prior to dexcool... When we pulled the pump off it looked
like it was cast just yesterday. No rust, no pitting, no scale. The seal
just desided to give out.

In article >,
Echoes > wrote:

> I think it was just wearing out. According to the invoice, they
> replaced front brake pads and resurfaced the rotors. That there costs
> $226, with $158 being labor.

Ahh. Yeah , brakes do wear out BTW, I wouldn't bother getting
rotors turned, they're generally cheaper to just replace.

> The invoice here said something about a resonator mid-pipe and
> leakage. How long is an EPA warranty? All I remember them saying is I
> should get it fixed, as the leakage could spill carbon monoxide in the
> car.

Check your manual. I'm pretty sure yours was up by then, but depending
on your state, it might not have. BTW, the EPA warrenty covers any
emissions related part / system, regardless of it being a safety hazzard
or not.

> I guess I'm kinda disappointed; I had such a good experience with my
> first Saturn, it kind of bums me with the repair experiences with my
> second one.

Well, two water pumps is kinda bad, the power window? I dunno. The
exhaust is weird too. But the brakes? That's wear and tear. Better to
replace your brakes than your car!

In article >,
says...

>
> What is a good antifreeze to put in there? Oh! I just remembered this,
> so perhaps this might be a major reason why. Months before I had the
> water pump replaced, I accidentally put in some blue antifreeze (not
> knowing better). Well, I ended up getting a coolant flush because of
> that.
>
> But perhaps the damage was already done? But even so, that should
> haven't had necessitated a second water pump having to be installed...

Not sure how the hell people get coolants mixed up unless their
completely color blind... Any silicate phosphate free coolant is what
you want. This isnt the 1950's so you want a coolant designed for this
new metal they got out now, I think they call it aluminum... If you're
intolerant of Texaco Havoline then try Prestone Extended Life Coolant.
It is compatible with Dexcool and doesnt eat up the cooling system like
conventional green coolant does.
Btw once your system has a non-extended life coolant in it you cannot
switch back and expect extended life coolant to last more than 2 years
because of contamination. If using conventional coolant it should be
changed yearly at the least and left in for NO more than 2 years tops.

In article >,
says...

> It's actually quite easy to get mixed up, if one such as myself is
> uninformed and unknowledgeable what type to put in there, and then
> attempts to make extrapolated assumptions, and thus inaccurate
> guesses from the manual on what kind should be put in there.
>

Making guesstimations? This should take some guess work out of it.
This is just me going from my memory... The overflow bottle cap will
have a Orange or Green dot in the center for Saturns. The rest of GM
will have a sticker near the bottle that mentions something about
Dexcool if its a dexcool system, unless its pealed off. I'm kinda
thinking that "blue coolant" might of been windshield washer fluid and
someone filled the wrong bottle. Just a theory.

In article >,
says...
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:24:07 GMT, Blah Blah > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> says...
> >
> >> It's actually quite easy to get mixed up, if one such as myself is
> >> uninformed and unknowledgeable what type to put in there, and then
> >> attempts to make extrapolated assumptions, and thus inaccurate
> >> guesses from the manual on what kind should be put in there.
> >>
> >
> > Making guesstimations? This should take some guess work out of it.
> >This is just me going from my memory... The overflow bottle cap will
> >have a Orange or Green dot in the center for Saturns. The rest of GM
>
> Excellent, thanks, I'll keep a lookout on that in the future.
>
> >will have a sticker near the bottle that mentions something about
> >Dexcool if its a dexcool system, unless its pealed off. I'm kinda
> >thinking that "blue coolant" might of been windshield washer fluid and
> >someone filled the wrong bottle. Just a theory.
>
> LOL, I'm not that bad -- at least, I hope I'm not that bad!. The blue
> in this case was a lot thicker than the windshield stuff; I picked up
> a small container of it at some gas station (Chevron or Shell or
> Union76).

Oh I thought they put the blue in at a shop. I read something wrong...

"Philip Nasadowski" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Check your manual. I'm pretty sure yours was up by then, but
> depending
> on your state, it might not have. BTW, the EPA warrenty covers any
> emissions related part / system, regardless of it being a safety
> hazzard
> or not.
<snip>

Be very careful here, the Ross-Magnusson Act does not cover the
"Intake" only the exhaust. In my manual it was pages 25-27 for the
1999 SL1. However when confronted with the logic both at the
dealership and that no use customer support line and 2 managers they
said that the intake manifold was not covered and not part of the
exhaust system. In my case I told them to fix the problem (An intake
leak) and I would pay the invoice and then sue the hell out of them to
get the money back. That caused quite a stir all around and they
called back and said as a courtesy they would eat the cost of the
repair if I would pay the $9 for the gasket. Seemed like a good deal
and it had been fixed.

The law in New York mirrors California but it had to be a car
purchased in 2004 (After January) when the law took affect. That
emissions control law only affect 5 years up to that new car year
purchase. The 2003 on down have a 5 years of coverage and not 8.

Elector

In article >,
"Elector" > wrote:

> Saturn of Albany did not want to fight the
> issue so they gave the "courtesy repair".

I'm sure if you reminded them the EPA likes to investigate this stuff,
they'd have been even more cooperative...

> You had to be on the phone
> with Saturn's Customer Service when they argued it was not under the
> federal act, and was under their own warranty terms. I wish I taped
> it.

Yeah, sounds like fun (not!). The trick is to get past the first and
2nd level phone answerers and get to someone real...