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Does this sound right?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 20th 05, 10:56 PM
Tony Bad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Does this sound right?

As I posted before, my VW dealer is running an oil consumption test on my 02
Jetta 2.0. At about 45 to 50K it began using more oil than before. It had
used 1/3 to 1/2 a quart every 1000 miles since new, but more recently had
begun using almost 1 quart per thousand.

So...VW starts the test, changes oil, and tells me to come back in 1000
miles. I do so, and see that only about 6 ounces of oil are needed to fill
again. I also see that the guy is adding Castrol 10W40 fossil oil, instead
of the 5W40 that is recommended, or 5W30 synthetic I have been using since
early on. I ask him if that is what they put in when they did pre-test oil
change, and he doesn't really answer. Never mind they charged me for
synthetic but may have given me regular oil...my bigger issue is why would
they use a thicker oil to run this test?

Wouldn't this automatically reduce oil consumption of the type that plagues
these engines?

It seems like they aren't really running a fair test here. I am not anxious
for a ring job by any means, but switching a variable like this seems rather
dishonest.

Does anyone know if this is how these tests are normally run?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


--
Tony Bad
--------------

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)


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  #2  
Old January 24th 05, 03:04 AM
external usenet poster
 
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Default

I have to put a new clutch in my 2003 TDI. The first time I have ever
wasted a clutch in 25 years of driving mostly VWs. Wah. Well if the
new heavier duty clutch lasts as expected then maybe I will be less
aggravated.

You know this would be really interesting if oil weight is a cure. Do
you live in an area where cold temps might make some sort of
difference in the test?

"Tony Bad" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> I am sure I would be quite mad if they changed a variable in the
>> testing process. If you are curious and it is above and beyond what
>> you should do, maybe you could draw an oil sample to see if a testing
>> lab can tell what oil is in the engine. If they had run the test using
>> your brand and weight of oil and found a problem first, that would be
>> ok. Their next test with a different weight or brand of acceptable oil
>> and the problem went away would be ok. It might suggest that the car
>> works better with a different wieght of oil.
>>

>
>I am a bit angry, as they are really changing the test so it looks better
>for them. As I posted in earlier threads, the car was using almost or just
>over a quart every 1000miles of late, now, with whatever they put in, it
>used 6 ounces in 1100miles...something is amiss. What really bugs me is that
>if they feel the solution is to switch to a heavier oil, just say so, why
>jerk me around running a test that their monkeying with the variables makes
>a waste of everyone's time. If the car was off warranty, I'd just switch to
>a heavier oil, but there is still some time left, so I was doing as
>recommended in manual, using a thinner oil.
>
>I wonder if that is the issue itself...my 95 Golf had a 2.0, but I never
>used 5W30 or 40 in that, and it never burned a drop. Maybe the probelm all
>along was the oil!
>
>Who knows...well...thanks for your thoughts. Yet again a trip to VW service
>makes me feel like I have been treated like an ass. Maybe after 25 years and
>almost that many different VW's it is time to move on.



Jim B.
  #3  
Old January 24th 05, 07:20 PM
Tony Bad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
...
> I have to put a new clutch in my 2003 TDI. The first time I have ever
> wasted a clutch in 25 years of driving mostly VWs. Wah. Well if the
> new heavier duty clutch lasts as expected then maybe I will be less
> aggravated.
>
> You know this would be really interesting if oil weight is a cure. Do
> you live in an area where cold temps might make some sort of
> difference in the test?


It has been unusually cold the past week or two, but even last winter when
we had one of the coldest winters in a while, the oil use remained constant.
While whatever oil they used for the "test" has slowed the rate of oil use,
it still used almost a 1/4 of a quart per 1000 miles. This is still more
than any other VW I have owned.
--
Tony Bad
--------------

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)


  #4  
Old January 26th 05, 02:29 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would be real curious as to what this mystery oil is. Did it come
from a drum or from quart containers? Did you watch the whole oil
change? Did you read the dipstick at the dealer after they ran the
engine for a few minutes? I was just wondering if your baseline and
subsequent oil level reads are being done the same way. I have never
suffered this so it is quite interesting to see a test prove someone
"wrong". Especially someone like you who know his way around cars.

It will be interesting to see if your next oil change using your own
oil creaes the problem again.

"Tony Bad" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> I have to put a new clutch in my 2003 TDI. The first time I have ever
>> wasted a clutch in 25 years of driving mostly VWs. Wah. Well if the
>> new heavier duty clutch lasts as expected then maybe I will be less
>> aggravated.
>>
>> You know this would be really interesting if oil weight is a cure. Do
>> you live in an area where cold temps might make some sort of
>> difference in the test?

>
>It has been unusually cold the past week or two, but even last winter when
>we had one of the coldest winters in a while, the oil use remained constant.
>While whatever oil they used for the "test" has slowed the rate of oil use,
>it still used almost a 1/4 of a quart per 1000 miles. This is still more
>than any other VW I have owned.



Jim B.
  #5  
Old January 28th 05, 07:06 PM
Tony Bad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
...
> I would be real curious as to what this mystery oil is. Did it come
> from a drum or from quart containers? Did you watch the whole oil
> change? Did you read the dipstick at the dealer after they ran the
> engine for a few minutes? I was just wondering if your baseline and
> subsequent oil level reads are being done the same way. I have never
> suffered this so it is quite interesting to see a test prove someone
> "wrong". Especially someone like you who know his way around cars.
>
> It will be interesting to see if your next oil change using your own
> oil creaes the problem again.
>

I don't know the answers to any of your questions...my dealer doesn't have
anyplace to watch the work being done. The whole question arose when the guy
came out to check the oil after the first 1000 miles of the test, and then
poured oil out of a Castrol 10W40 (non-synthetic) bottle. I asked him about
whether they had used that or the recommended weight when they did pre-test
change, and he kind of didn't really answer. The fact that oil use dropped
by at least 50% after this change kind of answers the question...the oil
they put in is NOT the same oil I have been using and burning for the past 2
years. I KNOW I used the recommended viscosity...not sure what they used.


--
Tony Bad
--------------

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)


  #6  
Old January 29th 05, 12:06 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tony Bad" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> I would be real curious as to what this mystery oil is. Did it come
>> from a drum or from quart containers? Did you watch the whole oil
>> change? Did you read the dipstick at the dealer after they ran the
>> engine for a few minutes? I was just wondering if your baseline and
>> subsequent oil level reads are being done the same way. I have never
>> suffered this so it is quite interesting to see a test prove someone
>> "wrong". Especially someone like you who know his way around cars.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see if your next oil change using your own
>> oil creaes the problem again.
>>

>I don't know the answers to any of your questions...my dealer doesn't have
>anyplace to watch the work being done. The whole question arose when the guy
>came out to check the oil after the first 1000 miles of the test, and then
>poured oil out of a Castrol 10W40 (non-synthetic) bottle. I asked him about
>whether they had used that or the recommended weight when they did pre-test
>change, and he kind of didn't really answer. The fact that oil use dropped
>by at least 50% after this change kind of answers the question...the oil
>they put in is NOT the same oil I have been using and burning for the past 2
>years. I KNOW I used the recommended viscosity...not sure what they used.


So how many more miles before the test is done so you can perform your
own test again using the recommended oil?

Jim B.
  #7  
Old January 29th 05, 04:05 AM
Tony Bad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> wrote in message
...
> "Tony Bad" > wrote:
>
>
> So how many more miles before the test is done so you can perform your
> own test again using the recommended oil?
>
> Jim B.


I am guessing that they'll keep it up till my warranty runs out (;^P)...

Seriously, if the next 1000 miles (about 700 left...which is another 2
weeks) shows lower oil use than I was experiencing, I'll end it and switch
back to the oil the manual recommends...we'll see what happens.

--
Tony Bad
--------------

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)


  #8  
Old January 31st 05, 07:15 PM
nosmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


>
> Seriously, if the next 1000 miles (about 700 left...which is another 2
> weeks) shows lower oil use than I was experiencing, I'll end it and switch
> back to the oil the manual recommends...we'll see what happens.
>
> --
> Tony Bad
> --------------



For years and years, the recommended oil for water cooled VWs was 20W-50.
These motors burnt little oil and when they did, it was usually valve stem
oil seals.

Jump forward to around year 2000. Now apparently some rings got mounted
incorrectly and there was a recall , so 'excessive oil burning' in these
models should be fixed by the factory.

Now the trend in USA is for thiner oils. We are told that clearances are
tighter on new motors.

This is NOT true on current VW motors. I have carefully checked the new
motor clearances in VWs for the last 20 years. In the vital areas of piston
ring clearances, that affect oil consumption , the current spec is looser.
Ring side clearance has been increased. This is due to the ring pack sitting
higher on the piston and thus has more chance for ring gumming. Extra
clearance here will help ( ?? )

I am on my 9th VW. I have a 2.0 , 2003 and my wife a 2002. Both burn more
oil than my 92, or 86.

However I am using different oil ( Mobil 1, 0W-40 ) not 20W-50.

Unless you have one of the bad motors, use thicker oil. And never expect
these engines to NOT burn some oil. They are not Hondas and ALL European
motors are designed to burn a little oil.
Good luck


  #9  
Old January 31st 05, 10:27 PM
Brian Running
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> For years and years, the recommended oil for water cooled VWs was 20W-50.
> These motors burnt little oil and when they did, it was usually valve stem
> oil seals.
>
> Jump forward to around year 2000. Now apparently some rings got mounted
> incorrectly and there was a recall , so 'excessive oil burning' in these
> models should be fixed by the factory.
>
> Now the trend in USA is for thiner oils. We are told that clearances are
> tighter on new motors.
>
> This is NOT true on current VW motors. I have carefully checked the new
> motor clearances in VWs for the last 20 years. In the vital areas of piston
> ring clearances, that affect oil consumption , the current spec is looser.
> Ring side clearance has been increased. This is due to the ring pack sitting
> higher on the piston and thus has more chance for ring gumming. Extra
> clearance here will help ( ?? )
>
> I am on my 9th VW. I have a 2.0 , 2003 and my wife a 2002. Both burn more
> oil than my 92, or 86.
>
> However I am using different oil ( Mobil 1, 0W-40 ) not 20W-50.
>
> Unless you have one of the bad motors, use thicker oil. And never expect
> these engines to NOT burn some oil. They are not Hondas and ALL European
> motors are designed to burn a little oil.
> Good luck


I've only had three VWs -- a diesel and two gas Jettas -- and only the
current one, an '01, ever burned any oil. The diesel and the '97 never
used a drop. I've got Mobil 1 0W-40 in it now, and when I drive at
freeway speeds, it'll take a half-pint every 500 miles or so. In the
summer, I put 20W-50 in it, and consumption drops significantly. Note:
For affecting oil consumption, it's the first (Winter) viscosity
number that matters. 5W-50 will burn as much as 5W-20.
 




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