Visit to the Ford Dealer

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
:

> My Names Nobody wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Joe wrote:
>>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots
>>>> with
>>>>> more money than sense. It will continue for another 6-12 months
>>>>> IMO.
>>>> That is, if Ford's still making them at that point...
>>> I think they will because even at MSRP they are making a killing off
>>> the car. EVERYTHING on it is either low tech or already developed
>>> under existing models. That includes the heads, blower, intercooler
>>> and even the rear end is a low cost easy to install solid axle. I
>>> bet the GT500 doesn't cost hardly any more than the last Cobra to
>>> build since they dropped the IRS. I think Ford sees the GT500 as
>>> just another Cobra offering with Carrol Shelby's name slapped on it.
>>> In fact, that is probably where the extra cost is from over the
>>> last Cobra.
>>>
>>> Plus, with the GT going out of production they need a high
>>> performance model of some sort and the GT500 is all they have for
>>> the foreseeable future. Anyway, I WILL NOT pay more than $45k-$50k
>>> for a loaded convertible GT500. It just won't happen. There are
>>> too many better convertibles in the $50k-$65k price range that weigh
>>> far less. In fact, Ford advertises "Bold Moves" so why don't they
>>> do a "bold move" themselves and sell the damn car for the advertised
>>> price.
>>>
>>
>> If they would sell them at MSRP I would buy one yesterday. If they
>> insist on allowing their stealership network to continue gouging
>> their customers, this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will be
>> driving a Z06 Coverlet Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500.
>
> The dealers are just out to fleece those first buyers that are too
> dumb to wait for the price to drop. I too am a loyal Ford customer
> but I won't be gouged of a GT500. There are too many cars that are
> better this it for $50k+. The price will drop if they build as many
> of them as they have said. My real gripe with Ford will be if they
> don't build the stated quantity. If they do and there are enough
> buyers to keep the price up then I guess it is just a popular car. I
> think they have made the three year production run high enough to drop
> the price - so far so good. If they go back on their word to us loyal
> Mustang buyers then I may be done with Ford for good.

Based on what I've been reading, I hope Ford will still be selling
vehicles next year.

A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but I think you get the point...

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>> My Names Nobody wrote:
>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the idiots
>>>>> with
>>>>>> more money than sense. It will continue for another 6-12 months
>>>>>> IMO.
>>>>> That is, if Ford's still making them at that point...
>>>> I think they will because even at MSRP they are making a killing off
>>>> the car. EVERYTHING on it is either low tech or already developed
>>>> under existing models. That includes the heads, blower, intercooler
>>>> and even the rear end is a low cost easy to install solid axle. I
>>>> bet the GT500 doesn't cost hardly any more than the last Cobra to
>>>> build since they dropped the IRS. I think Ford sees the GT500 as
>>>> just another Cobra offering with Carrol Shelby's name slapped on it.
>>>> In fact, that is probably where the extra cost is from over the
>>>> last Cobra.
>>>>
>>>> Plus, with the GT going out of production they need a high
>>>> performance model of some sort and the GT500 is all they have for
>>>> the foreseeable future. Anyway, I WILL NOT pay more than $45k-$50k
>>>> for a loaded convertible GT500. It just won't happen. There are
>>>> too many better convertibles in the $50k-$65k price range that weigh
>>>> far less. In fact, Ford advertises "Bold Moves" so why don't they
>>>> do a "bold move" themselves and sell the damn car for the advertised
>>>> price.
>>>>
>>> If they would sell them at MSRP I would buy one yesterday. If they
>>> insist on allowing their stealership network to continue gouging
>>> their customers, this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will be
>>> driving a Z06 Coverlet Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500.
>> The dealers are just out to fleece those first buyers that are too
>> dumb to wait for the price to drop. I too am a loyal Ford customer
>> but I won't be gouged of a GT500. There are too many cars that are
>> better this it for $50k+. The price will drop if they build as many
>> of them as they have said. My real gripe with Ford will be if they
>> don't build the stated quantity. If they do and there are enough
>> buyers to keep the price up then I guess it is just a popular car. I
>> think they have made the three year production run high enough to drop
>> the price - so far so good. If they go back on their word to us loyal
>> Mustang buyers then I may be done with Ford for good.
>
> Based on what I've been reading, I hope Ford will still be selling
> vehicles next year.
>
> A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but I think you get the point...

Ford, GM and DC are really in a bind right now. They are paying the
price for shoving SUVs down our throats and ignoring the car market. I
don't see the price of gas going lower and, if anything, it will go
higher for the next several years. Now where will most of the ex SUV
owners go for their new fuel efficient cars? I'll give you one guess...
Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc. Look for the domestic makers market share to
erode further in the coming years.

Plus, I'm not sure if it really matters much what brand we buy. Hell,
Toyotas' probably have more domestic content than cars from Ford or GM.
I see Ford/GM management and the unions just whistling past the
graveyard. When it comes to their vehicle lineup, Ford is like the NBA
and NFL is with players. They change model names so fast that no one
knows what the hell they sell anymore. If someone asked me to name the
models of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles I really couldn't tell you half
of them. Do you think Toyota has plans to rename the Camry or Honda to
rename the Civic or Accord any time soon? They would consider it
marketing suicide.

IMO, there was nothing wrong with the Taurus (or Thunderbird) name. It
was a great car at one time and the top selling model in the USA for
several years. What killed the Taurus was Ford's lack of innovation and
engineering toward the car. It had nothing to do with the name. Look
at Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. They continually fixed their cars with
every new generation and now reap the benefits of decades of model name
recognition. The Corolla was seen as a cheap econobox 20-30 years ago
but not anymore. It is a great little car. Aside from the F truck
series and the Mustang I can't think of any FMC cars that have any
continuous, long term, name recognition. Now aren't the Mustang and F
truck series two of their most popular offerings? Hmmmm.... maybe there
is a correlation to this after all.

IMO, what is wrong with Ford, GM and the "C" in DC is they need to
regain the confidence and trust of the US auto buying public.
Personally, I think they offer cars that are very close to what the
foreign makers build but they can't market for **** and the dealers
practices are further hurting them. Most people don't separate the Ford
Dealer from Ford Corporate. If dealers, and Ford, went out of their way
to make their buyers happy then they would regain market share.
Unfortunately, short term (and short sighted) greed is killing them.

In article >, Itsfrom Click wrote:
>
> in what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE
>
> tried ordering an '05 GT convert from my local dealer starting 1 1/2
> years ago.......at first, he wanted $5800 over sticker.....lowest he
> ever got was $3000 over.
>
> so, I finally went to an out-of-town dealer and ordered an '06 for
> $3000 under sticker (which was a good price at the time). car came in
> Feb.
>
> and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun
> coversation.


I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something
different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more
people to this nonsense than they gain from it?

"Brent P" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >, Itsfrom
> Click wrote:
>>
>> in what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE
>>
>> tried ordering an '05 GT convert from my local dealer starting 1 1/2
>> years ago.......at first, he wanted $5800 over sticker.....lowest he
>> ever got was $3000 over.
>>
>> so, I finally went to an out-of-town dealer and ordered an '06 for
>> $3000 under sticker (which was a good price at the time). car came in
>> Feb.
>>
>> and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun
>> coversation.
>
>
> I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something
> different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more
> people to this nonsense than they gain from it?
>

Well in 1999, that is exactly what I did for my wife's new non-Ford ride.

i have always had fords. back in 99 i had to go to 4 dealers to get what
i could afford and make a deal. the first 3 acted like they could care
less if they sold me a f-150 or not, because i think cause i had a trade
in??. the 4th dealer had my deal done in less that 40 minutes. now i
only deal with those guys and been pleased eversince. + my dad bought a
02 saleen from them. they treated us good. mp
99-f150
99-gt

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in news:nqSdnYe-
:

> Joe wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> My Names Nobody wrote:
>>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wait it out. Right now the dealers are busy reeling it the
idiots
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> more money than sense. It will continue for another 6-12 months
>>>>>>> IMO.
>>>>>> That is, if Ford's still making them at that point...
>>>>> I think they will because even at MSRP they are making a killing
off
>>>>> the car. EVERYTHING on it is either low tech or already developed
>>>>> under existing models. That includes the heads, blower,
intercooler
>>>>> and even the rear end is a low cost easy to install solid axle. I
>>>>> bet the GT500 doesn't cost hardly any more than the last Cobra to
>>>>> build since they dropped the IRS. I think Ford sees the GT500 as
>>>>> just another Cobra offering with Carrol Shelby's name slapped on
it.
>>>>> In fact, that is probably where the extra cost is from over the
>>>>> last Cobra.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus, with the GT going out of production they need a high
>>>>> performance model of some sort and the GT500 is all they have for
>>>>> the foreseeable future. Anyway, I WILL NOT pay more than $45k-
$50k
>>>>> for a loaded convertible GT500. It just won't happen. There are
>>>>> too many better convertibles in the $50k-$65k price range that
weigh
>>>>> far less. In fact, Ford advertises "Bold Moves" so why don't they
>>>>> do a "bold move" themselves and sell the damn car for the
advertised
>>>>> price.
>>>>>
>>>> If they would sell them at MSRP I would buy one yesterday. If they
>>>> insist on allowing their stealership network to continue gouging
>>>> their customers, this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will
be
>>>> driving a Z06 Coverlet Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500.
>>> The dealers are just out to fleece those first buyers that are too
>>> dumb to wait for the price to drop. I too am a loyal Ford customer
>>> but I won't be gouged of a GT500. There are too many cars that are
>>> better this it for $50k+. The price will drop if they build as many
>>> of them as they have said. My real gripe with Ford will be if they
>>> don't build the stated quantity. If they do and there are enough
>>> buyers to keep the price up then I guess it is just a popular car.
I
>>> think they have made the three year production run high enough to
drop
>>> the price - so far so good. If they go back on their word to us
loyal
>>> Mustang buyers then I may be done with Ford for good.
>>
>> Based on what I've been reading, I hope Ford will still be selling
>> vehicles next year.
>>
>> A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but I think you get the point...
>
> Ford, GM and DC are really in a bind right now. They are paying the
> price for shoving SUVs down our throats and ignoring the car market.
I
> don't see the price of gas going lower and, if anything, it will go
> higher for the next several years. Now where will most of the ex SUV
> owners go for their new fuel efficient cars? I'll give you one
guess...
> Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc. Look for the domestic makers market share
to
> erode further in the coming years.
>
> Plus, I'm not sure if it really matters much what brand we buy. Hell,
> Toyotas' probably have more domestic content than cars from Ford or
GM.
> I see Ford/GM management and the unions just whistling past the
> graveyard. When it comes to their vehicle lineup, Ford is like the
NBA
> and NFL is with players. They change model names so fast that no one
> knows what the hell they sell anymore. If someone asked me to name
the
> models of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles I really couldn't tell you
half
> of them. Do you think Toyota has plans to rename the Camry or Honda
to
> rename the Civic or Accord any time soon? They would consider it
> marketing suicide.
>
> IMO, there was nothing wrong with the Taurus (or Thunderbird) name.
It
> was a great car at one time and the top selling model in the USA for
> several years. What killed the Taurus was Ford's lack of innovation
and
> engineering toward the car. It had nothing to do with the name. Look
> at Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. They continually fixed their cars with
> every new generation and now reap the benefits of decades of model
name
> recognition. The Corolla was seen as a cheap econobox 20-30 years ago
> but not anymore. It is a great little car. Aside from the F truck
> series and the Mustang I can't think of any FMC cars that have any
> continuous, long term, name recognition. Now aren't the Mustang and F
> truck series two of their most popular offerings? Hmmmm.... maybe
there
> is a correlation to this after all.
>
> IMO, what is wrong with Ford, GM and the "C" in DC is they need to
> regain the confidence and trust of the US auto buying public.
> Personally, I think they offer cars that are very close to what the
> foreign makers build but they can't market for **** and the dealers
> practices are further hurting them. Most people don't separate the
Ford
> Dealer from Ford Corporate. If dealers, and Ford, went out of their
way
> to make their buyers happy then they would regain market share.
> Unfortunately, short term (and short sighted) greed is killing them.

Michael, I think you're pretty much right on the money (as usual). The
only thing I might comment on is that DC arguably has the strongest
lineup right now. As with the other "American" makers, however, they
still need to come up with _real_ competition for cars like the Fit,
Yaris, etc. not to mention the long-time best sellers like the Camry,
Corolla, etc.

BTW, it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, comes from the
GM/Renault talks...

In > (Brent P) writes:

>In article >, Itsfrom Click wrote:
>>
>> in what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE
>>
>> tried ordering an '05 GT convert from my local dealer starting 1 1/2
>> years ago.......at first, he wanted $5800 over sticker.....lowest he
>> ever got was $3000 over.
>>
>> so, I finally went to an out-of-town dealer and ordered an '06 for
>> $3000 under sticker (which was a good price at the time). car came in
>> Feb.
>>
>> and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun
>> coversation.


>I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something
>different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more
>people to this nonsense than they gain from it?

I am in that group.

I have a 1992 5.0 and I was looking to trade in my 1994 Caravan for a
new ride. I really liked the 2006 Pony Edition (so did my wife :-) so
I went to Campbell Ford in Ottawa, which is the largest Ford dealer in
eastern Ontario. They had the Pony advertised in the local paper and
on their website for the intro price of $23,500cdn. Browsing the lot,
all of the stickers were between $27k and $30k. I found a salesman and
asked him what the deal was with the Pony and his response was, "What
would you like the deal to be?". Bull****!

I asked about the special price and he said that the sticker on the window
was the price and he could not come up a calculation about how the
price jumps from $23.5k to $28k. Turns out that there is no way you
can get a Pony off the lot for less than $27.5k.

I turned my attention to the Fusion and 500s. Same crap. No clear
indication of price and vague references to deals that were not
forthcoming. Also, they were not interested in taking my 1994 as
trade.

Anyway, I bought a fully loaded 2006 Impala LT for a great price and
I am very happy with the car and the purchase experience could not have
been easier. The Chevy dealership also gave me a very good price
for my trade.

Two weeks after I bought the Impala, the Ford salesman calls and
wants to talk. Sill doesn't want my trade and the prices are still
vague. See ya later!

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in news:nqSdnYe-
> :
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>><snip>
>> Ford, GM and DC are really in a bind right now. They are paying the
>> price for shoving SUVs down our throats and ignoring the car market.
> I
>> don't see the price of gas going lower and, if anything, it will go
>> higher for the next several years. Now where will most of the ex SUV
>> owners go for their new fuel efficient cars? I'll give you one
> guess...
>> Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc. Look for the domestic makers market share
> to
>> erode further in the coming years.
>>
>> Plus, I'm not sure if it really matters much what brand we buy. Hell,
>> Toyotas' probably have more domestic content than cars from Ford or
> GM.
>> I see Ford/GM management and the unions just whistling past the
>> graveyard. When it comes to their vehicle lineup, Ford is like the
> NBA
>> and NFL is with players. They change model names so fast that no one
>> knows what the hell they sell anymore. If someone asked me to name
> the
>> models of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles I really couldn't tell you
> half
>> of them. Do you think Toyota has plans to rename the Camry or Honda
> to
>> rename the Civic or Accord any time soon? They would consider it
>> marketing suicide.
>>
>> IMO, there was nothing wrong with the Taurus (or Thunderbird) name.
> It
>> was a great car at one time and the top selling model in the USA for
>> several years. What killed the Taurus was Ford's lack of innovation
> and
>> engineering toward the car. It had nothing to do with the name. Look
>> at Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. They continually fixed their cars with
>> every new generation and now reap the benefits of decades of model
> name
>> recognition. The Corolla was seen as a cheap econobox 20-30 years ago
>> but not anymore. It is a great little car. Aside from the F truck
>> series and the Mustang I can't think of any FMC cars that have any
>> continuous, long term, name recognition. Now aren't the Mustang and F
>> truck series two of their most popular offerings? Hmmmm.... maybe
> there
>> is a correlation to this after all.
>>
>> IMO, what is wrong with Ford, GM and the "C" in DC is they need to
>> regain the confidence and trust of the US auto buying public.
>> Personally, I think they offer cars that are very close to what the
>> foreign makers build but they can't market for **** and the dealers
>> practices are further hurting them. Most people don't separate the
> Ford
>> Dealer from Ford Corporate. If dealers, and Ford, went out of their
> way
>> to make their buyers happy then they would regain market share.
>> Unfortunately, short term (and short sighted) greed is killing them.
>
> Michael, I think you're pretty much right on the money (as usual). The
> only thing I might comment on is that DC arguably has the strongest
> lineup right now. As with the other "American" makers, however, they
> still need to come up with _real_ competition for cars like the Fit,
> Yaris, etc. not to mention the long-time best sellers like the Camry,
> Corolla, etc.

I was going to add that I thought DC is in the best position to turn
things around for themselves. They think outside the box when designing
cars and aren't afraid to take a chance. The PT Cruiser, 300M,
Crossfire, Viper etc. are cars that Ford or GM wouldn't think of
building. Plus, DC has Mercedes' engineering to take from which is a
big help to their model line and is why the 300M/Charger is so successful.

> BTW, it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, comes from the
> GM/Renault talks...

I can't see much of anything coming out of it. Renault has no influence
here in the US so what is the purpose? GM needs a sit down with the UAW
more than Renault.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:16:08 GMT, "My Names Nobody" >
wrote:

>
>If they would sell them at MSRP I would buy one yesterday. If they insist
>on allowing their stealership network to continue gouging their customers,
>this life long Ford guy (I bleed Ford Blue) will be driving a Z06 Coverlet
>Corvette instead of a Ford Mustang GT500.
>


Same here, I bought my first Ford in 1971, A Gran Torino station
wagon (UGGGGGH) but it was the "family thing at the time. Since
then. Before that I drove GM products, I've driven Fords ever since
with no exceptions. On my third Mustang, wiht a Mercury Mountaineer
and a F250 HD diesel 4X4 in the garage. All told, it's been close to
30 Fords since '71. Like you, before I let my "pride" get screwed
buying a 45K car for 65K, I'll revert to my "pre '71 days" and mosey
on over to Southern Chevrolet and talk seriously about Corvette.
Might be some "swallowing" going on with the folks that look at me as
the "FOAD NUT" at work, but I'll manage that with a smile.

I just simply AIN'T gonna get screwed by any "stealership" regardless
of "brand loyalty"

John

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:53:36 -0500,
(Brent P) wrote:

>In article >, Itsfrom Click wrote:
>>
>> in what they'll be going for in a year....SWEET REVENGE
>>
>> tried ordering an '05 GT convert from my local dealer starting 1 1/2
>> years ago.......at first, he wanted $5800 over sticker.....lowest he
>> ever got was $3000 over.
>>
>> so, I finally went to an out-of-town dealer and ordered an '06 for
>> $3000 under sticker (which was a good price at the time). car came in
>> Feb.
>>
>> and NOW my local dealer calls and wants to deal........that was a fun
>> coversation.
>
>
>I wonder how many people walk away from Ford dealers and buy something
>different entirely because of such nonsense. And does ford lose more
>people to this nonsense than they gain from it?


I did exactly that late last year. My wife wanted a new Explorer
E/Bauer package. We went to the local dealership (same one I've been
trading wtih for 20 years) and walked in as usual telling the sales
manager we want "that Explorer" and asking, "how much" well, he
insisted on sticker price. I told him I wanted to buy the car, not
the dealership... To make a long story short, he wouldn't deal, I
went to the Merc/Lincoln dealer, we bought a new Mountaineer. Drove it
off that lot over to the Ford dealer, parked in front, walked in past
the sales manager right to the owner's office. I asked him to come
outside and see my "NEW CAR" when he did, he almost ****. Asked me
what happened, I told him, he was visibly upset... The next time I
was in the dealership, a couple of weeks later (to have coffee with
some friends that work there) the sales manager was gone. I asked
what happened and was told that he didn't come back the day after I
bought my Mountaineer.

So, the moral to that story is, let bull**** walk and go somewhere
else to spend your money, BUT make sure you go back and let the
MANAGER/OWNER know what happened after the fact. That's when you have
the most clout, when they KNOW you mean business by dealing with the
competetion. Tell them then and there, if they want your business
"next time" to make sure they act like it and treat you like they want
your business or you'll go "across the street" again. That tactic has
worked for me. I walk in now, the current sales force knows not to
play games...

They might screw me without me knowing it, laugh behind my back and
call me "whatever" but at least they talk seriously and don't try to
sell me over sticker or at sticker because I look "hungry"

John