Bad news, possible cracked head

"J B" > wrote in message
...
> BlaBla wrote: "...have YOU ever noticed a measurable loss of engine
> coolant?"
>
> Absolutely none in fact. I guess it was last winter that Sears changed
> the antifreeze to the orange colored coolant that's made for cars with
> some wear on the engine. I didn't know they were going to change it and
> they didn't charge me, but it was something that needed done. Never
> ever, before or since have I had to add coolant.

This pretty much rules out head or gasket failure, and is a very good (but
not 100%) indicator.

> However, during this
> long hot summer I did have to add a quart of oil two different times
> because the engine did burn some of that up. I'm assuming that's not a
> huge deal considering the heat we've had ths year. And one of the times
> I added a quart was after the one long drive I took this year.

Keep a log of oil and fuel (and everything else) to determine consumption
rates. EXCESSIVE consumption or a sudden increase in consumption RATE may
be a problem indicator. Most properly wearing engines consume SOME oil.
Some will say that an engine that burns NO oil is not getting emough oil to
the top rings and will have problems in the future but YMMV. Oil
consumption will tend to increase in hot weather and on long trips at high
speed. Our engines burn less oil (and gas) when my wife drives! Old used
oil will burn faster than new fresh oil and can be an indicator that it is
time to change all of it. Some brands will burn slower than others and an
older engine MAY benifit from a change to 10w30 from 5w30 in hot weather.

> Just so you guys know how this all started: It was actually over 2 years
> ago that a truck tire tread flew off a truck that was 2 spots in front
> of me on the highway. The tread hit the car in front of me, went under
> his car, his back wheels popped the tread back into the air, then hit
> and broke the shield under my bumper before going underneath me car. The
> Saturn dealership here in Omaha 'eventually' told me a piece of the
> shield lodged up against the "intake gasket" which they replaced. I
> swear though that before they changed that gasket, that I heard a small
> piece of the shield get sucked up into the engine. Maybe that's not even
> possible but it sure did seem like it.

The air filter (and the air intake box) will prevent stuff getting sucked
into the engine.

> Anyways, immediately after the
> truck tire tread caused the damage my car has ALWAYS been running warm
> but has never overheated. And after changing a thermostat, a water pump,
> and an intake gasket, I still can't take the car on long trips.

Any sudden change in operation linked to an EVENT is a good indicator of the
cause of a problem and is the place to start for a solution! Many here
report that the horizontal air dam below the rad DOES make a difference in
cooling and coolant temp in hot weather, replacing it is a good first
action, (find a used one from a wrecking yard to save $. Find a self
service yard as you will find lots of other stuff like tires on wheels and
other plastic pieces that you can purchase cheaply, and the exercise of
removing them yourself will teach you a lot, and if you break them you do
not need to take them).

As others have said here, short trips constitute SEVERE usage (especially in
cool weather) and will result in a buildup of moisture in the crankcase and
REQUIRE shortened oil change intervals. Engines like long highway trips (at
reasonable speeds) and this is usually the least severe form of operation.

YMMV

BläBlä wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
> > Took my SW2 in to Sears Auto for an oil change. After doing the job they
> > told me to take the car into an engine shop ASAP, because when they
> > pulled the dipstick out a little smoke was coming out and "that usually
> > means a cracked head gasket". So all the money I spent at the Saturn
> > dealership trying to get them to tell me what was wrong seems to have
> > been a waste. They charged me alot of money but never were able to fix
> > the problem of my car getting very warm. AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
> >
> > Looks like my new tires will have to wait until I get this checked out.
> > I doubt the $350 or so I'm saving for tires will be enough to replace a
> > cracked head. This really bites....
> >
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> -- .. ... - . .-. ..-. .- -.-. - / .. ... / .- -. / .. -.. .. --- -
>
> Your post title is troll fodder. A bad "head gasket" and "bad head" are
> two differnt things. You have a SW2 which has a Twincam which does not
> have head casting flaws which means you likely have a bad head gasket
> not a bad head. Probably do to overheating if this is the case. Before
> you jump to conclusions have YOU ever noticed a measurable loss of
> engine coolant???
> This could simply be "moisture" in your crank case. A cylinder leak
> down & compression test as well as a pressure test of the cooling system
> would be VERY WISE before going any further. If they say you need a new
> head or head gasket they had better prove it. Some grease monkey at
> sears is could be all gun ho over over nothing. (Maybe someone related
> to misterfullofcrap.)

Every time someone tells about a REAL cracked head in their
Saturn-due to a manufacturing flaw- Bla Bla accuses them of being a
troll related to me! Everyone knows that cylinderhead casting flaws
have been STANDARD at SATURN!
> -- .. ... - . .-. ..-. .- -.-. - / .. ... / .- -. / .. -.. .. --- -

Sorry to hear about your SL1 'micven55'. I found the Saturn dealership
here to be very expensive, especially considering the problem still
exists. I know shops at dealerships are more expensive, but I feel I
really got hosed.

Good info the rest of you gave. I'll definitely write some things down
so I don't forget any of it. I'm considering just getting my tires first
then saving for whatever other repairs are needed. Who knows, I may even
move before doing anything else to it. Although I will be getting a new
belt put on. I'd hate to get stuck halfway between Omaha and Casper or
Billings with a broken belt. The friend who sold me the car kept all his
service repair bills, and I don't see where a new belt was put on.
That's almost 7 years. And the car has 71,000 miles on it. It's possible
he did change it and lost a bill, but I hate taking chances and the belt
is worn. Heck, I've put about 26,000 of those miles on it and I
obviously haven't changed it.

Man, am I ready to get on the road and head west. One of these blue
moons....just maybe.

Jeff

Ok, I've been browsing the on-line parts stores (i.e. Napa Auto), just
to price a horizontal air dam. Couldn't find it anywhere. Is it part of
something else maybe? Or known by another name?

Thanks, Jeff

In article >,
says...
> BlaBla wrote: "...have YOU ever noticed a measurable loss of engine
> coolant?"
>
> Absolutely none in fact. I guess it was last winter that Sears changed
> the antifreeze to the orange colored coolant that's made for cars with
> some wear on the engine. I didn't know they were going to change it and
> they didn't charge me, but it was something that needed done. Never
> ever, before or since have I had to add coolant. However, during this

Good, then you have no known issue with your head or head gasket.

> long hot summer I did have to add a quart of oil two different times
> because the engine did burn some of that up. I'm assuming that's not a
> huge deal considering the heat we've had ths year. And one of the times
> I added a quart was after the one long drive I took this year.

Most likely your oil control rings are sticking or PCV valve needs
cleaned out with brake clean.

> Just so you guys know how this all started: It was actually over 2 years
> ago that a truck tire tread flew off a truck that was 2 spots in front
> of me on the highway. The tread hit the car in front of me, went under
> his car, his back wheels popped the tread back into the air, then hit
> and broke the shield under my bumper before going underneath me car. The
> Saturn dealership here in Omaha 'eventually' told me a piece of the
> shield lodged up against the "intake gasket" which they replaced. I
> swear though that before they changed that gasket, that I heard a small
> piece of the shield get sucked up into the engine. Maybe that's not even

I remember that post! It made no since to me at all then or now. Kinda
need imagery for this because I have no idea how the air sheild below
your radiator made it to the top of your engine compartment, past your
air filter, through the throttle body, into the intake manifold, and
then lodged itself into your intake gasket which is on the back side of
your engine... ? Thats just one scenario I came up with from what I
could gather from your post. The other scenario's make about as much
sense... I still have no idea how your intake gasket was "damaged"
unless you're speaking of a different part.

Curious, was your oil pan dented in any way?


> possible but it sure did seem like it. Anyways, immediately after the
> truck tire tread caused the damage my car has ALWAYS been running warm
> but has never overheated. And after changing a thermostat, a water pump,
> and an intake gasket, I still can't take the car on long trips. It
> wouldn't be so bad if I had money to continually throw at the problem
> but I'm just an average working stiff trying to pay the rent every
> month.
> That's the breaks I guess.












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-... . .-. .. ... .... / .- - / -... . ... - .-.-.- / .. / -. . ...- .
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... - .-.-.-

In article >,
says...
> Ok, I've been browsing the on-line parts stores (i.e. Napa Auto), just
> to price a horizontal air dam. Couldn't find it anywhere. Is it part of
> something else maybe? Or known by another name?
>
> Thanks, Jeff
>
>

"Air dams" keep air from going under the car from the start. I'm not to
sure what the parts actual name would be other than "air deflector". You
wont likely find it at napa, autozone, or advance since its a body
component.

BlaBla wrote: "I still have no idea how your intake gasket was "damaged"
unless you're speaking of another part."

Either I wrote it wrong or my posts are running together since I've
written a few lately. What I meant to say if I didn't, was that when I
originally took the car in to Saturn after the incident, I was told a
piece of the shield broke off and lodged up against the "air intake"
damaging it. I'd have to find the old receipt but I'm pretty sure I was
told they needed to replace the "air intake" if that makes any sense.

It was a couple of visits later they finally hooked the car up to a
tester and found out that the water pump was bad as well as the intake
gasket. I had both replaced for a heck of alot of money. There was a
visit not long before that one when I had them replace the thermostat
MUCH to the dismay of the mechanic. He told me, "If it was my car I
wouldn't even worry about it." Guess he thought I was imagining the
problem. He hadn't even hooked the car up to the tester, but did check
the cooling system which was working ok according to him. I know I
wasted over $100 on getting that thermostat replaced, but did so out of
frustration.

"Curious, was your oil pan dented in anyway?"

Not that I know of. I've had a few oil changes since the incident and
was never told it was dented or damaged. I do want to take it to a
garage and ask if they'll put it on a lift and look at the underside
with me. I'm REALLY curious as to what I'll see. Especially that
"horizontal air dam". It makes perfect sense that it could of and
probably was damaged. I'm guessing it's not part of the shield. When I
first took the car in the shield was replaced.

Thanks, Jeff

No apologies needed, my car was old and it was time to move on. I got a
Mazda 3s and it's an absolute hoot to drive. As far as my old SL1 goes
the mechanic had to mill the head, I guess it was warped a little, and
replace the head gasket, no cracks. He was advertising it for $2500 more
than I sold it to him, so I'm sure he made out well on it.