TDC

I'm trying to get to TDC on cylinder #1 and jerking the starter is not getting
there. Even with the spark plugs out I can't seem to rotate the block by hand.
I'm thinking of jacking up the rear tire and then putting the vehicle in 3rd
and rotating the rear wheel until it is TDC.
Anything wrong with this idea or is there another way?
Thanks Rojo

On 17 Jan 2005 23:18:09 GMT, (Rojo2G) wrote:

>I'm trying to get to TDC on cylinder #1 and jerking the starter is not getting
>there. Even with the spark plugs out I can't seem to rotate the block by hand.
>I'm thinking of jacking up the rear tire and then putting the vehicle in 3rd
>and rotating the rear wheel until it is TDC.
>Anything wrong with this idea or is there another way?
>Thanks Rojo

Use a breaker bar with the correct size socket on the crankshaft
pulley bolt.

Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> On 17 Jan 2005 23:18:09 GMT, (Rojo2G) wrote:
>
>
>>I'm trying to get to TDC on cylinder #1 and jerking the starter is not getting
>>there. Even with the spark plugs out I can't seem to rotate the block by hand.
>>I'm thinking of jacking up the rear tire and then putting the vehicle in 3rd
>>and rotating the rear wheel until it is TDC.
>>Anything wrong with this idea or is there another way?
>>Thanks Rojo
>
>
> Use a breaker bar with the correct size socket on the crankshaft
> pulley bolt.

depends on engine design, you can actually add torque to the bolt that
way if the engine is tight.

You should be able to turn over a run-in engine with the plugs out by
just adding a little tension to the fan belt with one hand and turning
the fan with the other (assuming a solid fan, obviously this won't work
with a clutch fan)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

TeGGer® wrote:

> Nate Nagel > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 17 Jan 2005 23:18:09 GMT, (Rojo2G) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm trying to get to TDC on cylinder #1 and jerking the starter is
>>>>not getting there. Even with the spark plugs out I can't seem to
>>>>rotate the block by hand. I'm thinking of jacking up the rear tire
>>>>and then putting the vehicle in 3rd and rotating the rear wheel until
>>>>it is TDC. Anything wrong with this idea or is there another way?
>>>>Thanks Rojo
>>>
>>>
>>>Use a breaker bar with the correct size socket on the crankshaft
>>>pulley bolt.
>>
>>depends on engine design, you can actually add torque to the bolt that
>>way if the engine is tight.
>>
>>You should be able to turn over a run-in engine with the plugs out by
>>just adding a little tension to the fan belt with one hand and turning
>>the fan with the other
>
>
>
>
> That method only works on my Integra until I get to a point where (I guess)
> one cylinder is near the top of its compression stroke. At that point it's
> impossible to move with the accessory belt, and even with a socket and
> ratchet on the crank bolt, it needs a good tug before it's "over center".
>
> Considering the difficulty many people experience trying to loosen their
> crank bolts to get at the timing belt, I wonder how realistic is the
> concern about adding torque to the crank bolt.
>

I do know for a fact that it's possible to lock up a Studebaker engine
by doing that if the crank endplay shims aren't installed correctly.
Granted that's an unusual circumstance... you really can't do that even
with the plugs out though?

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

TeGGer® wrote:

> Nate Nagel > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>TeGGer® wrote:
>>
>
>
>>>That method only works on my Integra until I get to a point where (I
>>>guess) one cylinder is near the top of its compression stroke. At
>>>that point it's impossible to move with the accessory belt, and even
>>>with a socket and ratchet on the crank bolt, it needs a good tug
>>>before it's "over center".
>>>
>>>Considering the difficulty many people experience trying to loosen
>>>their crank bolts to get at the timing belt, I wonder how realistic
>>>is the concern about adding torque to the crank bolt.
>>>
>>
>>I do know for a fact that it's possible to lock up a Studebaker engine
>>by doing that if the crank endplay shims aren't installed correctly.
>>Granted that's an unusual circumstance... you really can't do that
>>even with the plugs out though?
>>
>
>
>
> I don't know as I've never tried it. Plugs have always been in whenever
> I've turned the engine, which is as-originally-built with the exception of
> the head gasket and has 240K on it. Don't know what the compression is
> like, but oil consumption is more than double what it was when new, so
> there's some ring wear for sure.
>
> And anyway, that experiment will have to wait until it's a bit warmer. With
> no garage and 0 degrees F, car work is definitely unappealing just now.
>

LOL I didn't mean for you to go out and try it, it's just that that's
always how I've adjusted the valves on my Studebakers, just set it to
TDC, do #1, then grab the fan and pull it around 90 degrees, do #8 etc.
etc. etc.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Rojo2G" > wrote in message
...
> I'm trying to get to TDC on cylinder #1 and jerking the starter is not
getting
> there. Even with the spark plugs out I can't seem to rotate the block by
hand.
> I'm thinking of jacking up the rear tire and then putting the vehicle in
3rd
> and rotating the rear wheel until it is TDC.
> Anything wrong with this idea or is there another way?
> Thanks Rojo

Try using top gear-3rd, 4th, 5th and push the car to turn the engine over.
You only need to move a foot or so. I've had good success doing this.
Sometimes getting a bar and socket on the crankshaft is difficult or
impossible with some east/west engines.

Chas Hurst

I'll try the pully idea and then the breaker bar..into the black hole that
filled with old oil.
The spark plugs are out and the engine does have 250,000 miles, so it should
turn easily but...I like to know what the options are, thanks everyone.
Rojo

TeGGer® wrote:

> Nate Nagel > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>TeGGer® wrote:
>>
>
>
>>>And anyway, that experiment will have to wait until it's a bit
>>>warmer. With no garage and 0 degrees F, car work is definitely
>>>unappealing just now.
>>>
>>
>>LOL I didn't mean for you to go out and try it,
>
>
>
> Watch it, the nutty TeGGer just might...
>
>
>
>>it's just that that's
>>always how I've adjusted the valves on my Studebakers, just set it to
>>TDC, do #1, then grab the fan and pull it around 90 degrees, do #8
>>etc. etc. etc.
>
>
>
>
> The Integra is a FWD car with the engine sideways. Access to the accessory
> belts is basically through a mail slot. Hard to grab from up top. Bolt on
> the crank is the easiest way, and Honda even provides a handy little hole
> in the plastic fender liner just for this purpose.
>
> You should try doing a timing belt on one of these things. You need thin-
> wall and shallow sockets, 1/4" drive ratchets, super-long extensions, all
> sorts of odd tools. And it's impossible to get a torque wrench on some
> bolts at all, so you end up doing it by feel. No room to speak of. There
> _is_..._just_ enough room to slide the new belt down between the inner
> fender and the pulleys.
>

Ummm.... and I should do this *why?*

I passed on the t-belt on my 944 for similar reasons, although it's a
conventional front(mid)-engine/RWD car so there's more space to work, if
anything...

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
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On 18 Jan 2005 02:43:42 GMT, (Rojo2G) wrote:

>I'll try the pully idea and then the breaker bar..into the black hole that
>filled with old oil.
>The spark plugs are out and the engine does have 250,000 miles, so it should
>turn easily but...I like to know what the options are, thanks everyone.
>Rojo

I don't know every make of cars, just the one's I own, which means, I
wait for an owner who has the same car as YOU to answer the questions.
But on my car, yes it is turning the crankshaft bolt, and it is too
cold for me to even go outside and sit in the car, nevermind look
under the hood ;-) -1Farenheit, that is keeping me indoors forever
until I get some _heat_.

Lg

On 18 Jan 2005 04:13:08 GMT, "TeGGer®" > wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman > wrote in
:
>
>> it is too
>> cold for me to even go outside and sit in the car, nevermind look
>> under the hood ;-) -1Farenheit, that is keeping me indoors forever
>> until I get some _heat_.
>
>
>Poor *******s, we are. It's -6F right now for me. Just looked at the
>thermometer.

Poor *******s we are. It is going down to -8F IIRC tomorrow night.
Anybody who has to work outside on their car in this weather has my
deepest condolences, well, ALmost everyone.....

I expect there will be a lot of cars that won't start tomorrow
morning. Dead batteries, frozen fuel lines. Myself, I had better get
some HEET or equivalent before I find myself in the same situation !

Lg