2004TJ front end wobble

OK - the vehicle is a 2004 TJ Sport, 4 wheel discs, limited slip Dana
44 Rear, aluminum wheels. 30,100 miles, I've had it since new. Great
car in every way. I don't offroad it yet, I just drive it in snow and
adverse weather conditions.

Recently, though, if I drive along and hit a particular type of bump,
usually a manhole cover sunk down into the asphault, and with one
wheel, usually the driver's side front, a wobble starts in that wheel,
travels up the steering column and into the steering wheel and won't
let go until it either dies out on its own, or maybe I change the
position of the steering wheel and it damps out, or I brake and slow
down. It persists for 2 to 6 seconds, and is quite startling. Not
something the vehicle has done in the past, ever. It does seem to be
getting worse over the last three weeks. It does not do it at all much
of the time.

A quick look under doesn't show anything obviously loose or leaking,
and pulling at the tire and wheels and steering while they are on the
ground doesn't seem to show any obvious play.

The car is under extended warranty.

My questions a

(1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at
30,000 miles? Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage?
I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including
lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it
shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and
I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road.

(2)Any suggestions on what to look at and wiggle and test to locate
where the problem is and what to replace? I'd like if possible to be
able to pinpoint enough of a problem to get a dealer to actually fix
it, if possible. I'm thinking it has to be the stabilizer shock, I'm
thinking get the wheels off the ground and move them, looking for play
in the tie rod ends and for resistance in the stabilizer shock. Any
specifics on what to look at to pinpoint the error would be much
appreciated.

This news group, by the way has been fantastic to read over the last
year and a half. I've learned a tremendous amount - like my fan switch
stopped working at low, and I don't need to mention that as an issue
because I already know that they burn out regularly in one setting...
That'll be fixed on this trip in as well.

damgoodespresso did pass the time by typing:

> My questions a
>
> (1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at
> 30,000 miles?

Yep. DW can occur at any age.

> Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage?

Yep. :/

> I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including
> lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it
> shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and
> I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road.

How long has it been since you replaced the steering stabilizer or
shocks? Also, throwing a wheel weight can cause DW, but usually it
causes the problem to occur at highway speed.

--
DougW

Start by jacking it up and checking for play in the wheel bearings and track
rod ends and the control arm bushings. Make sure the wheel nuts are on
tight - always a good one :-). The steering damper may be shot, but it's
function is to essentially mask the problem. Also have a look for irregular
tyre wear indicative of an alignment problem.

Is it lifted at all ?

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> OK - the vehicle is a 2004 TJ Sport, 4 wheel discs, limited slip Dana
> 44 Rear, aluminum wheels. 30,100 miles, I've had it since new. Great
> car in every way. I don't offroad it yet, I just drive it in snow and
> adverse weather conditions.
>
> Recently, though, if I drive along and hit a particular type of bump,
> usually a manhole cover sunk down into the asphault, and with one
> wheel, usually the driver's side front, a wobble starts in that wheel,
> travels up the steering column and into the steering wheel and won't
> let go until it either dies out on its own, or maybe I change the
> position of the steering wheel and it damps out, or I brake and slow
> down. It persists for 2 to 6 seconds, and is quite startling. Not
> something the vehicle has done in the past, ever. It does seem to be
> getting worse over the last three weeks. It does not do it at all much
> of the time.
>
> A quick look under doesn't show anything obviously loose or leaking,
> and pulling at the tire and wheels and steering while they are on the
> ground doesn't seem to show any obvious play.
>
> The car is under extended warranty.
>
> My questions a
>
> (1) This sure sounds an awful lot like the usual death wobble, but at
> 30,000 miles? Is this normal Jeep steering behavior for this mileage?
> I've done regular maintenance at the hard use interval, including
> lubing the front suspension and steering every 4000 miles, so it
> shouldn't be neglect... The tires are due for balance and rotate, and
> I've never had it aligned. But it's driven on-road.
>
> (2)Any suggestions on what to look at and wiggle and test to locate
> where the problem is and what to replace? I'd like if possible to be
> able to pinpoint enough of a problem to get a dealer to actually fix
> it, if possible. I'm thinking it has to be the stabilizer shock, I'm
> thinking get the wheels off the ground and move them, looking for play
> in the tie rod ends and for resistance in the stabilizer shock. Any
> specifics on what to look at to pinpoint the error would be much
> appreciated.
>
> This news group, by the way has been fantastic to read over the last
> year and a half. I've learned a tremendous amount - like my fan switch
> stopped working at low, and I don't need to mention that as an issue
> because I already know that they burn out regularly in one setting...
> That'll be fixed on this trip in as well.
>

Doug -

DW at any age: darn.

Steering stabilizer: never replaced. Shocks: never.

I also ready somewhere that tire/wheel balance and alignment can
trigger this, but usually there is a root cause, like worn parts
somewhere. This happens at like 30 to 35 miles per hour, never happens
at highway speeds, and doesn't seem to take effect at slower speeds -
you can feel there is a wobble but it doesn't persist, it gets damped
out.

I usually look to replace shocks and shock-like components around
50,000 miles - you think the Jeep needs this sooner to stay stable?

And thanks much for the response.
--doug

Dave -

I'll jack it up this eve and take a closer look. The tyre wear looks
okay - I rotated them at 8000, 16000, and then nothing until now, but
the wear pattern seems fine.

The vehicle is stock through and through. I wanted it for snow and
rains and bad on-road conditions and maybe someday for when I buy a
ranch in Colorado. But for now and pretty much until it is paid for,
it is highway-pampered.

--doug

Dave -

sorry man - I wanted to thank you too for responding. Much
appreciated.
--doug

Please, let us know what the Stealership finds.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

" wrote:
>
> Dave -
>
> sorry man - I wanted to thank you too for responding. Much
> appreciated.
> --doug

damgoodespresso did pass the time by typing:
> Doug -
>
> DW at any age: darn.
>
> Steering stabilizer: never replaced. Shocks: never.
>
> I also ready somewhere that tire/wheel balance and alignment can
> trigger this, but usually there is a root cause, like worn parts
> somewhere. This happens at like 30 to 35 miles per hour, never happens
> at highway speeds, and doesn't seem to take effect at slower speeds -
> you can feel there is a wobble but it doesn't persist, it gets damped
> out.
>
> I usually look to replace shocks and shock-like components around
> 50,000 miles - you think the Jeep needs this sooner to stay stable?

It seems so. The problem with DW is it scuffs the wheels, the more
scuffing the more likely wobble will happen. Adjusting the toe-in
can remove some of the problem but introduces a tendancy to drift
or not track straight.

My first run in with DW was just at 30,000 miles. New shocks and stabilizer
fixed the problem. The last two times it's hit was at 85mph and was caused
by wheels out of ballance.

--
DougW

Bill -

I'll post it. Seems like while there is a lot of information on death
wobble, exact resolutions and step-by-step are rare, the postings seem
to show possible causes, then things get fixed, then more things get
fixed... And then the poster stops posting...

--doug

Doug -

Thanks. That sounds straightforward. Front and rear shocks
replacement or just front?

Any recommendation on (highway) shocks and stabilizers to use for
replacement? I drive mostly highway (daily driver).

SO - to summarize so far:

- I'll jack up the vehicle tonight (maybe tomorrow, worst case
Saturday...) and look at wear and play where there shouldn't be such.
Especially track bar and stabilizer shock... I'm scheduling the dealer
for next week.

- I'll find replacement shocks and stabilizer shock, and get wheels
balanced and alignment checked, while having the dealer check for any
specific problem just for laughs, while he replaces the fan switch or
fan switch relay under warrantee...

- I'll check if the wheel balance and alignment changed or eliminated
the problem - I'll still plan on replacing the shocks and stabilizer
soon in any case, but sooner if the problem persists.

- I'll post what the dealer finds, and the results of fixing just the
balance and alignment at this point, then follow up with the result of
changing the shocks and stabilizers.

That's what I see so far.
--doug