BMW 3.0 liter diesel: any good?

"Huw" > wrote in message
...

> Again I have to say that I fail to see the problem. Have you different
> rules for the storage of diesel fuel to those for home heating oil?

Yes, we absolutely have different rules for both the storage and the use in
certain settings.

"Huw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "fbloogyudsr" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Huw" > wrote
>>> "fbloogyudsr" > wrote
>>>> "Huw" > wrote
>>>>> Again I have to say that I fail to see the problem. Have you different
>>>>> rules for the storage of diesel fuel to those for home heating oil?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, the problem is more "will I get caught". Heating oil, and
>>>> diesel delivered to agriculture users, has a dye in it (or perhaps it
>>>> the other way around - not really germane). If you get caught
>>>> with dyed fuel in a road vehicle, the consequences are quite serious.
>>>
>>> What is so difficult with this? I am certainly not advocating the use of
>>> rebated fuel in road vehicles.
>>> It is perfectly normal to order Derv [as it is called in the UK]or road
>>> diesel fuel from your fuel supplier and to store it in a dedicated tank
>>> in the UK in exactly the same way as one would store and use off-road
>>> fuel or heating oil. So, apart from the cost of the storage tank, what
>>> is the problem? No laws are broken whatsoever in having a home storage
>>> facility for road diesel. Maybe other countries have different
>>> regulations? I don't know.
>>
>> Tanks under 1100 gallons (US gallons) are essentially un-regulated.
>> However, that does not absolve the owner of responsibility to clean up
>> any spills. Any spill could easily go into the 100's of thousands of $.
>> Zoning requirements in many cities (or counties) might restrict having
>> a tank; I haven't explored that.
>>
>
> Well there you go.

No, unfortunately that is correct only in part. There are federal rules (to
which the above comment seems to allude) and there are both local and state
rules, and most communities no longer allow storage of personal use fuels.
Most of the Americans on this ng cannot dig a hole in their backyard and
install a tank for the purpose of storing diesel or gasoline for vehicular
use. And there is almost no Amercians on the ng who an store fuels above
ground, as local fire codes almost always deny that.

"Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Huw" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "fbloogyudsr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Huw" > wrote
>>>> "fbloogyudsr" > wrote
>>>>> "Huw" > wrote
>>>>>> Again I have to say that I fail to see the problem. Have you
>>>>>> different rules for the storage of diesel fuel to those for home
>>>>>> heating oil?
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, the problem is more "will I get caught". Heating oil, and
>>>>> diesel delivered to agriculture users, has a dye in it (or perhaps it
>>>>> the other way around - not really germane). If you get caught
>>>>> with dyed fuel in a road vehicle, the consequences are quite serious.
>>>>
>>>> What is so difficult with this? I am certainly not advocating the use
>>>> of rebated fuel in road vehicles.
>>>> It is perfectly normal to order Derv [as it is called in the UK]or road
>>>> diesel fuel from your fuel supplier and to store it in a dedicated tank
>>>> in the UK in exactly the same way as one would store and use off-road
>>>> fuel or heating oil. So, apart from the cost of the storage tank, what
>>>> is the problem? No laws are broken whatsoever in having a home storage
>>>> facility for road diesel. Maybe other countries have different
>>>> regulations? I don't know.
>>>
>>> Tanks under 1100 gallons (US gallons) are essentially un-regulated.
>>> However, that does not absolve the owner of responsibility to clean up
>>> any spills. Any spill could easily go into the 100's of thousands of
>>> $.
>>> Zoning requirements in many cities (or counties) might restrict having
>>> a tank; I haven't explored that.
>>>
>>
>> Well there you go.
>
> No, unfortunately that is correct only in part. There are federal rules
> (to which the above comment seems to allude) and there are both local and
> state rules, and most communities no longer allow storage of personal use
> fuels. Most of the Americans on this ng cannot dig a hole in their
> backyard and install a tank for the purpose of storing diesel or gasoline
> for vehicular use. And there is almost no Amercians on the ng who an store
> fuels above ground, as local fire codes almost always deny that.
>
>
In the UK we can store diesel fuel, heating oil (kero) and LPG above or
below ground, there are various regulations at both national and local
governmental levels that have to be complied with re. size and positioning
and bunding, but other than that, no probs. If however you wanted to store
petrol.... now that's a different matter, the rules are so strict that you
really just wouldn't bother doing it.
Badger.

"Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Huw" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Again I have to say that I fail to see the problem. Have you different
>> rules for the storage of diesel fuel to those for home heating oil?
>
> Yes, we absolutely have different rules for both the storage and the use
> in certain settings.
>

Since I am sure you can easily store home heating fuel and considering that
diesel fuel is hardly different, what are your rules for these fuels? I am
sure that petrol has far more rigorous storage rules which makes it
impractical for home storage.
Do you actually know the rules for private diesel storage or are you just
guessing that there are similar rules to petrol storage? You mention
"certain settings" and "the use". Well obviously there are different uses
and restrictions on use between the two fuels and I guess one is more
expensive than the other and this is the case in most countries.

Huw

"Huw" > wrote in message
...

> Do you actually know the rules for private diesel storage or are you just
> guessing that there are similar rules to petrol storage?

Guessing?

I was raised in a community where heating oil was used, my own home in fact,
and my family still lives around there. Recently my Mom was selling her
house but couldn't do it until she had brought her storage tank up to
current regulations. I went back and handled the mess for her and during
that time became thouroughly familiar with the rules for all kinds of
storage facilities allowed in residential settings by the EPA, as well as
New Jersey and Gloucester County regulations. What I am telling you is
simple fact. Though England may allow anyone and everyone to have a diesel
storage tank in their yard for vehicular use, that is simply not the case in
the vast majority of the US.

"Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Huw" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Do you actually know the rules for private diesel storage or are you just
>> guessing that there are similar rules to petrol storage?
>
> Guessing?
>
> I was raised in a community where heating oil was used, my own home in
> fact, and my family still lives around there. Recently my Mom was selling
> her house but couldn't do it until she had brought her storage tank up to
> current regulations. I went back and handled the mess for her and during
> that time became thouroughly familiar with the rules for all kinds of
> storage facilities allowed in residential settings by the EPA, as well as
> New Jersey and Gloucester County regulations. What I am telling you is
> simple fact. Though England may allow anyone and everyone to have a diesel
> storage tank in their yard for vehicular use, that is simply not the case
> in the vast majority of the US.
>
>
>
It appears that there is virtually no restriction to above ground storage in
Vermont and a few copied below for underground storage. Other States vary
but typically only stipulate bunded tanks that hold spills equal to 110% of
the tank capacity and some have volume restrictions, typically 1100 gallons,
before a licence needs to be obtained for home storage. In some States it
appears that there are no stricter regulations even for petrol fuel which is
far more volatile and potentially polluting if spilt. Obviously there are
more stringent regulations within large city limits and States such as New
York and California.


The delivery prohibition only applies to underground storage tanks. Above
ground tanks are regulated by the Vermont Department of Labor & Industry,
Fire Prevention Division. The delivery prohibition does not apply to
above-ground tanks.
..Underground storage tanks that contain heating oil for the purposes of
heating a building are exempted from these requirements. It is legal to
deliver heating oil to an underground tank of any size that is used to heat
a building, even if that underground tank does not meet the upgrade
requirements.
..Underground storage tanks smaller than 1100 gallons and that are used for
motor fuels (gasoline and/or diesel fuel) at farms or private residences are
also exempted from these requirements. It is legal to deliver motor fuel to
a farm or residential underground tank which is less than 1100 gallons, even
if that underground tank does not meet the upgrade requirements, as long as
the tank is used for non-commercial purposes.


Here is a link to the requirements in Florida
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/EH251


Huw

"Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Huw" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Do you actually know the rules for private diesel storage or are you just
>> guessing that there are similar rules to petrol storage?
>
> Guessing?
>
> I was raised in a community where heating oil was used, my own home in
> fact, and my family still lives around there. Recently my Mom was selling
> her house but couldn't do it until she had brought her storage tank up to
> current regulations. I went back and handled the mess for her and during
> that time became thouroughly familiar with the rules for all kinds of
> storage facilities allowed in residential settings by the EPA, as well as
> New Jersey and Gloucester County regulations. What I am telling you is
> simple fact. Though England may allow anyone and everyone to have a diesel
> storage tank in their yard for vehicular use, that is simply not the case
> in the vast majority of the US.
>

Just Google "above ground fuel storage" and you will find remarkably few
onerous rules for residential storage of diesel fuel in most States, not
just the ones in my other post. Here is one reference to the State of New
Jersey, which is obviously relevant to you, copied below and it is directly
..

QUOTE
"Aboveground Storage Tanks are not regulated by the New Jersey Department of
Environmental Protection Agency. There are no insurance requirements
necessary and they are easy maintenance. "
END

Huw.... The above is countered below by an explanation that AST's above 660
gallons will be inspected for spill protection and presumably a printed
action plan. This is not particularly onerous and only common sense.
In fact, for most purposes it is unlikely that a private house would need
greater than 660 gallons of road fuel storage so would be exempt from the
regulation though not exempt from punitive action in the very unlikely event
of a spill if no reasonable precautions were in place.
QUOTE
"The Fuel Merchants Association of New Jersey reports that more FMA members
are being subjected to random facility inspections due to EPA's increased
enforcement activities under the Spill Prevention Control and Countermeasure
regulations (SPCC).

FMA Director Eric DeGesero reports, "The EPA has hired additional SPCC
inspectors for our region and this has prompted increased awareness of the
program. Previously, the EPAlacked the manpower to look at 'smaller'
facilities but now they have the resources and will be visiting sites they
have not visited in years, or may have never visited."

The federal SPCC regulations have been in place since January 1974 for the
following storage thresholds:

.. Any single aboveground storage tank (AST) above 660 gallons;

.. Aggregate aboveground storage of 1,320 gallons or greater;

.. Total storage (above or below) of 42,000 gallons or greater.

DeGesero explained, "There are no exceptions to this rule. If a facility
fits any of the three criteria, it is a covered facility and must have an
SPCC plan."



END



Huw

"Huw" > wrote in message
...

> Just Google "above ground fuel storage" and you will find remarkably few
> onerous rules for residential storage of diesel fuel in most States, not
> just the ones in my other post. Here is one reference to the State of New
> Jersey, which is obviously relevant to you, copied below and it is
> directly

Oh great.....a "Google-Master".

You are completely missing the impact of local regulations and zoning
statutes and I am confused as to why you want to argue this at all.

I cannot speak for Britain, but in the US federal regulations are often the
largest parameter......it is at the local level where we are really made to
tow the line. There is considerable aversion to the Fed's inserting their
authority at state levels, and there is considerable aversion to states
inserting their authority at county, city & borough levels. I cannot think
of one single city or town in which the residents are alowed to put an
above-ground fuel storage tank in their yard....not one, and I live in the
West where agri rules tend to color our residential rules to a very large
degree.

At the county level, my current home is in unincorporated county, it is only
those residences on zoned agricultural land that are exempted. Even our
"Ranchette" properties disallow fuel storage in excess of 50 gallons.

Frankly, I think it would be incredibly stupid for American municipalities
to allow every resident to store and dispense fuel on their 1/4 acre
homesites. And if Britain allows it, I think it just as stupid there.

"Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Huw" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Just Google "above ground fuel storage" and you will find remarkably few
>> onerous rules for residential storage of diesel fuel in most States, not
>> just the ones in my other post. Here is one reference to the State of New
>> Jersey, which is obviously relevant to you, copied below and it is
>> directly
>
> Oh great.....a "Google-Master".
>
> You are completely missing the impact of local regulations and zoning
> statutes and I am confused as to why you want to argue this at all.
>
> I cannot speak for Britain, but in the US federal regulations are often
> the
> largest parameter......it is at the local level where we are really made
> to
> tow the line. There is considerable aversion to the Fed's inserting their
> authority at state levels, and there is considerable aversion to states
> inserting their authority at county, city & borough levels. I cannot think
> of one single city or town in which the residents are alowed to put an
> above-ground fuel storage tank in their yard....not one, and I live in the
> West where agri rules tend to color our residential rules to a very large
> degree.
>
> At the county level, my current home is in unincorporated county, it is
> only those residences on zoned agricultural land that are exempted. Even
> our "Ranchette" properties disallow fuel storage in excess of 50 gallons.
>
> Frankly, I think it would be incredibly stupid for American municipalities
> to allow every resident to store and dispense fuel on their 1/4 acre
> homesites. And if Britain allows it, I think it just as stupid there.

It's also stupid to assume that everyone would want to - those that do are
doing it for good reasons, maybe distance from a fuel station or cost of
fuel if they are high volume users. There are regulations re. distance from
boundaries etc that would effectively prohibit an awful lot of people from
storing it in the first place. It's a relatively small percentage of the
population that has the space for a tank (Look at the numbers that live in
built-up areas, high-rise flats etc and you'll see what I mean), and only a
relatively small percentage of them that want one anyway.
Badger.

"Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Huw" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Just Google "above ground fuel storage" and you will find remarkably few
>> onerous rules for residential storage of diesel fuel in most States, not
>> just the ones in my other post. Here is one reference to the State of New
>> Jersey, which is obviously relevant to you, copied below and it is
>> directly
>
> Oh great.....a "Google-Master".


It does shrink the World a bit.


>
> You are completely missing the impact of local regulations and zoning
> statutes and I am confused as to why you want to argue this at all.

I cannot find a single regulation either in NJ or elsewhere that prohibits
the storage of domestic heating oil or fuel for domestic use in smaller
quantities than 660 gallons in individual tanks or if a heating tank and a
diesel fuel tank is needed then two tanks of no more than 660 gallons each.
I am not arguing the point, you are. I was the one that said you could and
you say 'no'. I provide evidence while you argue.


>
> I cannot speak for Britain, but in the US federal regulations are often
> the
> largest parameter......it is at the local level where we are really made
> to
> tow the line. There is considerable aversion to the Fed's inserting their
> authority at state levels, and there is considerable aversion to states
> inserting their authority at county, city & borough levels. I cannot think
> of one single city or town in which the residents are alowed to put an
> above-ground fuel storage tank in their yard....not one, and I live in the
> West where agri rules tend to color our residential rules to a very large
> degree.

Far be it for me to say you are wrong but NJ rules have been quoted and they
are indeed more stringent than Federal rules but none the less do allow such
storage with few restrictions which I have summarised above and quoted in
the previous post.



>
> At the county level, my current home is in unincorporated county, it is
> only those residences on zoned agricultural land that are exempted. Even
> our "Ranchette" properties disallow fuel storage in excess of 50 gallons.

Where are there references to these local rules?



>
> Frankly, I think it would be incredibly stupid for American municipalities
> to allow every resident to store and dispense fuel on their 1/4 acre
> homesites. And if Britain allows it, I think it just as stupid there.
>


Do your homesteads not have oil fired heating in a large percentage then? I
would find that rather peculiar indeed in the land of Big Oil.

I doubt that very many people, even if they had diesel cars, would use home
bunkering of fuel unless they considered it a big advantage as I do.
Certainly in the UK, not that many do, although there is little stopping
them apart from possibly the placement of the store and the possible
inconvenience of paying a big bill in advance rather than paying as you go.
Obviously paying in bulk is great if the price rises but if prices fall
after purchase then there can be a sting.
In general it is businesses that can reclaim the sales tax and have several
vehicles that tend to bunker fuel, mainly for the convenience of use 24
hours a day and also the convenience of not having to keep receipts safely
each time a vehicle is filled.

Huw