wrangler towed in gear

Dave (and everyone else who contributed to the thread), we checked out
the Jeep this weekend and found the water is leaking from the water
pump. Checked the oil and it's black, no trace of water I could see.
We replaced the water pump, oil, and filter. It starts and runs but we
have bluish-white smoke coming from the tailpipe. If we accelerate the
smoke turns darker grey. It's run several minutes and doesn't get any
better. Since it's white, does that indicate water getting into the
cylinders?

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:32:20 GMT, "Dave Milne"
> wrote:

>where exactly is it leaking from ? Is there obvious damage to
>the engine or rad pipes ?
>
>Dave Milne, Scotland
>'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>> My son towed his 87 Jeep Wrangler back to school yesterday using a
>> towbar like he has in the past, but this time it somehow it got out of
>> neutral in to a gear (I don't know which one, or how fast he was
>> driving the 100 mile trip) and when he arrived it was leaking
>> antifreeze from the driver side of the engine. It would start but was
>> smoking. I don't know much about how it's acting now but based on what
>> I've described, can anyone make a guess as to what may have blown and
>> if you think he's trashed the engine?
>

I think it is supposed to be towed in gear, with the transfer case in
neutral. At least that's what owner's manual said for my '89 wrangler. You
might pull the plugs and see if one or more looks wet from coolant. If so,
you know the head gasket is leaking...Also, with plugs out, crank engine and
see if anything squirts.....Doesn't take much of a leak to cause white
"smoke."
> wrote in message
...
> Dave (and everyone else who contributed to the thread), we checked out
> the Jeep this weekend and found the water is leaking from the water
> pump. Checked the oil and it's black, no trace of water I could see.
> We replaced the water pump, oil, and filter. It starts and runs but we
> have bluish-white smoke coming from the tailpipe. If we accelerate the
> smoke turns darker grey. It's run several minutes and doesn't get any
> better. Since it's white, does that indicate water getting into the
> cylinders?
>
> On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:32:20 GMT, "Dave Milne"
> > wrote:
>
> >where exactly is it leaking from ? Is there obvious damage to
> >the engine or rad pipes ?
> >
> >Dave Milne, Scotland
> >'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> >> My son towed his 87 Jeep Wrangler back to school yesterday using a
> >> towbar like he has in the past, but this time it somehow it got out of
> >> neutral in to a gear (I don't know which one, or how fast he was
> >> driving the 100 mile trip) and when he arrived it was leaking
> >> antifreeze from the driver side of the engine. It would start but was
> >> smoking. I don't know much about how it's acting now but based on what
> >> I've described, can anyone make a guess as to what may have blown and
> >> if you think he's trashed the engine?
> >
>

That is not a good thing...

Anyway the pump quitting sounds like it is a coincidence or maybe when
the head gasket blew, the water went low and the pump bearings burned
out would be my guess.

I would be pulling the plugs to see which one is really clean. This
clean one(s) will be the one with water in it.

A compression test is in order. Testers are cheap and it can tell you
if it is a toasted head gasket or worse the rings or a piston broken
too.

The head has to come off anyway by the sounds of it so doing a wet/dry
compression test can tell you about the rings usually. If the rings are
toast, the engine will need a rebuild

White smoke is water, blue is oil, mix them and get bad news gray...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

wrote:
>
> Dave (and everyone else who contributed to the thread), we checked out
> the Jeep this weekend and found the water is leaking from the water
> pump. Checked the oil and it's black, no trace of water I could see.
> We replaced the water pump, oil, and filter. It starts and runs but we
> have bluish-white smoke coming from the tailpipe. If we accelerate the
> smoke turns darker grey. It's run several minutes and doesn't get any
> better. Since it's white, does that indicate water getting into the
> cylinders?
>
> On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:32:20 GMT, "Dave Milne"
> > wrote:
>
> >where exactly is it leaking from ? Is there obvious damage to
> >the engine or rad pipes ?
> >
> >Dave Milne, Scotland
> >'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> >> My son towed his 87 Jeep Wrangler back to school yesterday using a
> >> towbar like he has in the past, but this time it somehow it got out of
> >> neutral in to a gear (I don't know which one, or how fast he was
> >> driving the 100 mile trip) and when he arrived it was leaking
> >> antifreeze from the driver side of the engine. It would start but was
> >> smoking. I don't know much about how it's acting now but based on what
> >> I've described, can anyone make a guess as to what may have blown and
> >> if you think he's trashed the engine?
> >

Thank you John, we'll have a look this weekend.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:01:36 GMT, "attnews" <john .n.
> wrote:

>I think it is supposed to be towed in gear, with the transfer case in
>neutral. At least that's what owner's manual said for my '89 wrangler. You
>might pull the plugs and see if one or more looks wet from coolant. If so,
>you know the head gasket is leaking...Also, with plugs out, crank engine and
>see if anything squirts.....Doesn't take much of a leak to cause white
>"smoke."

Thanks Mike. We weren't really sure the head gasket had blown, after
finding out it was only the pump leaking. With the smoke though it
looks more likely. We have a service manual and i'll need to get a
compression tester and a tourque wrench. I've never pulled a head so
this should be interesting...

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:06:18 -0500, Mike Romain >
wrote:

>That is not a good thing...
>
>Anyway the pump quitting sounds like it is a coincidence or maybe when
>the head gasket blew, the water went low and the pump bearings burned
>out would be my guess.
>
>I would be pulling the plugs to see which one is really clean. This
>clean one(s) will be the one with water in it.
>
>A compression test is in order. Testers are cheap and it can tell you
>if it is a toasted head gasket or worse the rings or a piston broken
>too.
>
>The head has to come off anyway by the sounds of it so doing a wet/dry
>compression test can tell you about the rings usually. If the rings are
>toast, the engine will need a rebuild
>
>White smoke is water, blue is oil, mix them and get bad news gray...
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>

Mike and John,
Here's what we found. We bought an Actron compression gauge and
checked the compression of each of the cylinders today:

#1 151 psi
#2 155 psi
#3 152 psi
#4 156 psi

We cranked the engine about 8 times per check and the meter would go
to the maximum reading after 2-3 revolutions.

We took pictures of the plugs and posted them here if you want to have
a look. I didn't see any oil today but on Sunday the #2 plug appeared
to have some oil on it:

http://public.webbox.com/680000/

As we tested I watched the other 3 open plug holes and didn't see
anything coming out.

What do you think of those readings?



On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:06:18 -0500, Mike Romain >
wrote:

>That is not a good thing...
>
>Anyway the pump quitting sounds like it is a coincidence or maybe when
>the head gasket blew, the water went low and the pump bearings burned
>out would be my guess.
>
>I would be pulling the plugs to see which one is really clean. This
>clean one(s) will be the one with water in it.
>
>A compression test is in order. Testers are cheap and it can tell you
>if it is a toasted head gasket or worse the rings or a piston broken
>too.
>
>The head has to come off anyway by the sounds of it so doing a wet/dry
>compression test can tell you about the rings usually. If the rings are
>toast, the engine will need a rebuild
>
>White smoke is water, blue is oil, mix them and get bad news gray...
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>

You guys haven't driven a Ford lately. My Bronco gets the same ten
miles to the gallon with or without the Jeep on the back going over our
mile high mountains on the way to the desert.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

griffin wrote:
>
> I'll second that. I would say that it's quite "possible" for the stick to
> slide into a gear - as my '85 CJ7's stick will slide into any gear quite
> easily without depressing the clutch pedal (as long as it's parked), but the
> second it did that while he was towing it, it would have created one hell of
> a tug on him while he was driving. Maybe your transmission is toast, but
> that likely wouldn't explain the coolant.
>
> --
> griffin
> '85 Jeep CJ-7
> '97 Toyota Corolla SD

Anytime you're within ten pounds of each other, the rings are OK.
The deposits on the plugs tells us they're way too cold, carbon
fouled, and they didn't get that way from one soaking in oil as in being
pulled through with out ignition. Beware of anything sold as "Super" and
the number doesn't cross at: http://www.clubplug.net/bosch_ngk.html
Replace them with that your engine calls for, an American Champion
RC12LYC spark plug:
http://www.championsparkplugs.com/re...p?AAIA=1184655
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

wrote:
>
> Mike and John,
> Here's what we found. We bought an Actron compression gauge and
> checked the compression of each of the cylinders today:
>
> #1 151 psi
> #2 155 psi
> #3 152 psi
> #4 156 psi
>
> We cranked the engine about 8 times per check and the meter would go
> to the maximum reading after 2-3 revolutions.
>
> We took pictures of the plugs and posted them here if you want to have
> a look. I didn't see any oil today but on Sunday the #2 plug appeared
> to have some oil on it:
>
> http://public.webbox.com/680000/
>
> As we tested I watched the other 3 open plug holes and didn't see
> anything coming out.
>
> What do you think of those readings?

Thanks, I'll pick some up. This has always run rich, and got 8 mpg
before any of this happened. We were hoping the work we'd done
previously had helped. The engine in this Jeep is an odd one, Pugeot I
think someone said. The oil filter doesn't match what's in all the
filter books, wrong size. Fram says it's a PH3985, but it takes a WIX
51040. I don't know if that's how we got the odd plugs in it or not.

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:43:24 -0800, L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
> wrote:

> Anytime you're within ten pounds of each other, the rings are OK.
> The deposits on the plugs tells us they're way too cold, carbon
>fouled, and they didn't get that way from one soaking in oil as in being
>pulled through with out ignition. Beware of anything sold as "Super" and
>the number doesn't cross at: http://www.clubplug.net/bosch_ngk.html
>Replace them with that your engine calls for, an American Champion
>RC12LYC spark plug:
>http://www.championsparkplugs.com/re...p?AAIA=1184655
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/
>
wrote:
>>

In '87 AMC used the Peugeot Transmission, and their V6 in some '84
Cherokees, but I can't image anything but an American built AMC engine
for your Wrangler. Drivetrain possibilities at:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/swb/articles/specgrid.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

wrote:
>
> Thanks, I'll pick some up. This has always run rich, and got 8 mpg
> before any of this happened. We were hoping the work we'd done
> previously had helped. The engine in this Jeep is an odd one, Pugeot I
> think someone said. The oil filter doesn't match what's in all the
> filter books, wrong size. Fram says it's a PH3985, but it takes a WIX
> 51040. I don't know if that's how we got the odd plugs in it or not.