The Aspen, new and old

My first car was a '76 Aspen. I noticed that the new Chysler Aspen will
be assembled in Newark, DE, the same plant as many of the original
ones. I know I used to live nearby.

Personally, I think that DCX made a mistake by reviving that name. The
origianl Aspen is to myself and many others a prime example of what was
wrong with the US auto makers back in the 70s and 80s. Yea I know it is
a completely different car and probably even the lug nuts are
different. But why reuse a name that brings back so many bad memories.

Should Ford bring back the Pinto and GM the Vega ? IMHO, they are all
in the same league.

steve wrote:
> My first car was a '76 Aspen. I noticed that the new Chysler Aspen will
> be assembled in Newark, DE, the same plant as many of the original
> ones. I know I used to live nearby.
>
> Personally, I think that DCX made a mistake by reviving that name. The
> origianl Aspen is to myself and many others a prime example of what was
> wrong with the US auto makers back in the 70s and 80s. Yea I know it is
> a completely different car and probably even the lug nuts are
> different. But why reuse a name that brings back so many bad memories.
>
> Should Ford bring back the Pinto and GM the Vega ? IMHO, they are all
> in the same league.

According to marketing research "Aspen did not leave an indelible
negative mark on Chrysler imagery, it's just not there." Of course
marketing people haven't always been know for making smart descisions.

Charlie Deludo wrote:
> steve wrote:
> > My first car was a '76 Aspen. I noticed that the new Chysler Aspen will
> > be assembled in Newark, DE, the same plant as many of the original
> > ones. I know I used to live nearby.
> >
> > Personally, I think that DCX made a mistake by reviving that name. The
> > origianl Aspen is to myself and many others a prime example of what was
> > wrong with the US auto makers back in the 70s and 80s. Yea I know it is
> > a completely different car and probably even the lug nuts are
> > different. But why reuse a name that brings back so many bad memories.
> >
> > Should Ford bring back the Pinto and GM the Vega ? IMHO, they are all
> > in the same league.
>
> According to marketing research "Aspen did not leave an indelible
> negative mark on Chrysler imagery, it's just not there." Of course
> marketing people haven't always been know for making smart descisions.

Names are re-used often. In the 1970's, AMC re-used the "Hornet" name
that was used by Hudson in the 1950's. They also re-used the "Pacer"
name that was one of the doomed Edsel names.

The "Lancer" name has been used at least three times that I am aware
of. Most recently, by Mitsubishi.

I would like to see the "Fury" name used again, but it would sound
strange without "Plymouth" in front of it.

-KM

On 2 Oct 2006 13:47:27 -0700, "Charlie Deludo"
> wrote:

>> Should Ford bring back the Pinto and GM the Vega ? IMHO, they are all
>> in the same league.
>
>According to marketing research "Aspen did not leave an indelible
>negative mark on Chrysler imagery, it's just not there." Of course
>marketing people haven't always been know for making smart descisions. <snip>

I'd believe this. The Volaré/Aspen twins, while lousy cars, weren't
any worse than any other US-made cars at the time. Remember, the '70s
was the nadir of the US auto industry...they'd become fat, dumb and
happy and were abusing customers badly. You might recall GM's "less
car for more money" campaign, started with its 1971 full sized models
and later extended to its intermedates and compacts in '73. Ford was
scarcely much better, but had better build quality. Also, as if in
retribution for the passing of the Clean Air Act, US automakers built
and sold cars that wouldn't run acceptably right off the lot, blaming
"government intrusion." The dictum for the removal of tetraethyl lead
in '75 actually helped the automakers build better running cars. The
public wasn't completely oblivious to all this; the Japanese were
building cars that ran far better and got far better economy, even
though the material quality was shaky in the early days.

Against this backdrop, Chrysler certainly wasn't making any big fans
after about '72, but didn't sink into the abyss that GM did. Both
Ford and GM had really stuck it to themselves royally...GM with the
fraudulently engineered Vega, and Ford with the "exploding" Pinto, the
latter of which was yet another example of the Big 3's "non-thinking"
mentality. The Pinto, for what it was, wasn't all that bad a car at
all...certainly not very good, but it was the Ford design trademark of
using the top side of the gas tank as the trunk floor, a design
feature in nearly ALL Fords since 1961, that got them into trouble.
Their arrogant attitude about having customer pay for a $5 (plus shop
rate) "skid" on the rear end pumpkin, a policy that probably came
directly from King Henry II himself, is what did them in more than the
NTSB reports. The J-bodies, while really shaky cars early on, didn't
have the widespread reputation for crappy quality and engineering as
did Ford and GM cars, and they escaped the wrath of an
intergenerational bad reputation.

Funny this comes up, as I saw a Volaré wagon still in service,
although truly well worn, just the other day. When's the last time
you saw a Pinto or a Vega? For that matter, when's the last time you
saw ANY running Ford or GM car from the mid-'70s? For old timers of
that era, I see more Chryslers still in service than either of the
other two. While the J-bodies had lots of bugs, the basic design
proved to be long lived and hardy when it was stretched into the
M-body, probably one of the hardiest chassis designs of its time, and
certainly longer lived than competitors from GM and Ford. When's the
last time you saw an '80s Caprice or LTD on the road? Never. I see
M-bodies still running all the time.

OldeChrysler wrote:
When's the
> last time you saw an '80s Caprice or LTD on the road? Never. I see
> M-bodies still running all the time.

there is a 67 Ford galaxie, and a 68 Mustang running around my town, used
every day

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:24:43 -0500, "Green Acres is the place to be"
> wrote:

>OldeChrysler wrote:
> When's the
>> last time you saw an '80s Caprice or LTD on the road? Never. I see
>> M-bodies still running all the time.
>
>there is a 67 Ford galaxie, and a 68 Mustang running around my town, used
>every day <snip>

....and there's a '66 Ford Galaxie 500 4 door for sale a mile away from
me, also a "daily driver" since new. Ford was making pretty darned
good vehciles at the time, probably up until '71 to '73, when things
started going down the dumpster pretty fast. The '67 and '68 Ford
lines were probably some of their best ever.
>

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 18:40:19 -0700, OldeChrysler >
wrote:

>On 2 Oct 2006 13:47:27 -0700, "Charlie Deludo"
> wrote:
>
>>> Should Ford bring back the Pinto and GM the Vega ? IMHO, they are all
>>> in the same league.
>>
>>According to marketing research "Aspen did not leave an indelible
>>negative mark on Chrysler imagery, it's just not there." Of course
>>marketing people haven't always been know for making smart descisions. <snip>
>
>I'd believe this. The Volaré/Aspen twins, while lousy cars, weren't
>any worse than any other US-made cars at the time. Remember, the '70s
>was the nadir of the US auto industry...they'd become fat, dumb and
>happy and were abusing customers badly. You might recall GM's "less
>car for more money" campaign, started with its 1971 full sized models
>and later extended to its intermedates and compacts in '73. Ford was
>scarcely much better, but had better build quality. Also, as if in
>retribution for the passing of the Clean Air Act, US automakers built
>and sold cars that wouldn't run acceptably right off the lot, blaming
>"government intrusion." The dictum for the removal of tetraethyl lead
>in '75 actually helped the automakers build better running cars. The
>public wasn't completely oblivious to all this; the Japanese were
>building cars that ran far better and got far better economy, even
>though the material quality was shaky in the early days.
>
>Against this backdrop, Chrysler certainly wasn't making any big fans
>after about '72, but didn't sink into the abyss that GM did. Both
>Ford and GM had really stuck it to themselves royally...GM with the
>fraudulently engineered Vega, and Ford with the "exploding" Pinto, the
>latter of which was yet another example of the Big 3's "non-thinking"
>mentality. The Pinto, for what it was, wasn't all that bad a car at
>all...certainly not very good, but it was the Ford design trademark of
>using the top side of the gas tank as the trunk floor, a design
>feature in nearly ALL Fords since 1961, that got them into trouble.
>Their arrogant attitude about having customer pay for a $5 (plus shop
>rate) "skid" on the rear end pumpkin, a policy that probably came
>directly from King Henry II himself, is what did them in more than the
>NTSB reports. The J-bodies, while really shaky cars early on, didn't
>have the widespread reputation for crappy quality and engineering as
>did Ford and GM cars, and they escaped the wrath of an
>intergenerational bad reputation.
>
>Funny this comes up, as I saw a Volaré wagon still in service,
>although truly well worn, just the other day. When's the last time
>you saw a Pinto or a Vega? For that matter, when's the last time you
>saw ANY running Ford or GM car from the mid-'70s? For old timers of
>that era, I see more Chryslers still in service than either of the
>other two. While the J-bodies had lots of bugs, the basic design
>proved to be long lived and hardy when it was stretched into the
>M-body, probably one of the hardiest chassis designs of its time, and
>certainly longer lived than competitors from GM and Ford. When's the
>last time you saw an '80s Caprice or LTD on the road? Never. I see
>M-bodies still running all the time.


Bad comparison to use the 1980's LTD.
I've had both an '85 LTD wagon and the Mercury Colony Park equivalent.
Their 5 liter V8's were bulletproof with only one chronic defect: the
intake manifold gaskets would go bad around 70K to 90K miles causing
oil or water leaks. Their AOD transmissions, except for early
production units, were excellent.

I still see many in use in New England. Those that are not in use are
often laid up due to their poor fuel mileage.

The 70's to early 90's LTD's to me only have one major problem:
They are GAS hogs. Typically they get around 12MPG in the city and
around 18 on the highway.

My girlfriend back then had a 1977 Volare 2dr "coupe".
It's biggest problem? Rampant body rot within 5 years of production.
The entire bottom of both doors literally fell apart. I don't think
the interior panels of the doors were properly coated. The slant six
engine was fine.

As a matter of fact, I think that the Volare/Aspen used the same basic
mechanicals as the older highly regarding Dart/Valiant.

The only difference was the body design and lack of body quality.

Doug

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:14:42 -0700, steve wrote:

> My first car was a '76 Aspen. I noticed that the new Chysler Aspen will
> be assembled in Newark, DE, the same plant as many of the original
> ones. I know I used to live nearby.
>
> Personally, I think that DCX made a mistake by reviving that name. The
> origianl Aspen is to myself and many others a prime example of what was
> wrong with the US auto makers back in the 70s and 80s. Yea I know it is
> a completely different car and probably even the lug nuts are
> different. But why reuse a name that brings back so many bad memories.
>
> Should Ford bring back the Pinto and GM the Vega ? IMHO, they are all
> in the same league.


Isn't Aspen some Indian Dialect for "Runs slow, rusts fast"?

steve wrote:
> My first car was a '76 Aspen. I noticed that the new Chysler Aspen will
> be assembled in Newark, DE, the same plant as many of the original
> ones. I know I used to live nearby.
>
> Personally, I think that DCX made a mistake by reviving that name. The
> origianl Aspen is to myself and many others a prime example of what was
> wrong with the US auto makers back in the 70s and 80s. Yea I know it is
> a completely different car and probably even the lug nuts are
> different. But why reuse a name that brings back so many bad memories.
>
> Should Ford bring back the Pinto and GM the Vega ? IMHO, they are all
> in the same league.

A close friend of mine built up a ' 76 Aspen, back in 1988. He pulled
the 318, and replaced it with an early hi-po 340, ported the stock 340
iron heads, added a tunnel ram and 2-4 Holleys, and a 4-speed. Geared
it with 4.11's

that engine would rev to the moon- and it launched like a missile. He
use to hold the gas to the boards and sidestep the clutch. The
G-forces it created were like flying in a jet.

it wasn't the most graceful styling body-wise, but a unique buildup of
old and new...

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:28:48 GMT, Doug >
wrote:

>The 70's to early 90's LTD's to me only have one major problem:
>They are GAS hogs. Typically they get around 12MPG in the city and
>around 18 on the highway. <snip>

Meanwhile, a "P" code 318 equipped M-body could get 16-17 around town
and mid-to-high 20s on the road. So much for the vaunted 302!
Actually, the small block Ford was a good engine, but Ford's emissions
and fuel package was the worst out there at the time.

>As a matter of fact, I think that the Volare/Aspen used the same basic
>mechanicals as the older highly regarding Dart/Valiant. <snip>

Driveline, yes.

>The only difference was the body design and lack of body quality. <snip>

The J platform replaced the really durable and long lived A body. The
idea was to offer more car with the same or less weight, but the
execution wasn't good at all. Bad corrosion resistance was a problem
back in the "Rust Belt," for sure, as well as in coastal and southern
areas. Out here in the desert, where cars never rust, you'd never see
it.