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  #1  
Old June 1st 05, 01:45 PM
Griff
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Default 8-series

Dear all

I've read the various threads about which is the better car [840 vs 850
(ignoring the CSI)] and whilst these are no doubt informative I do
wonder whether they may be a little out-of-date.

So, I ask (previous owners?) that, with the benefit of hindsight, which
really is the car to own!

The points I'm really interested in are as follows:

1 - economy: are they similar or radically different?

2 - robustness: which of the two engines is the more "bullet proof"

3 - total cost of ownership: are parts for one significantly more
expensive than the other? What annual bill would I be looking at to
cover maintenance?

4 - when buying a car, any particular things to check?

Many thanks in advance

Griff

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  #2  
Old June 1st 05, 03:27 PM
Malt_Hound
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Griff wrote:
> Dear all
>
> I've read the various threads about which is the better car [840 vs 850
> (ignoring the CSI)] and whilst these are no doubt informative I do
> wonder whether they may be a little out-of-date.


How could the info be out of date? They have nopt made this model for
over 7 years now. Most of the information out there is still perfectly
valid.

>
> So, I ask (previous owners?) that, with the benefit of hindsight, which
> really is the car to own!
>
> The points I'm really interested in are as follows:
>
> 1 - economy: are they similar or radically different?


Let me preface by saying I'm not a previous owner. But I can still tell
you that they will be different. 8 cylinder is pretty darn economical
considerin the amount of power at your toes.

>
> 2 - robustness: which of the two engines is the more "bullet proof"


Neither, but the later years 8 cylinder is the most bulletproof.
Earlier 8's suffered from Nikasil problem. 12 cylinders are 12 cylinders.

>
> 3 - total cost of ownership: are parts for one significantly more
> expensive than the other? What annual bill would I be looking at to
> cover maintenance?


Yes. 12 cylinders are more expensive and harder to find parts. The 8
cyl engine was in the 5 and 7 series as well as the 8 series.

If I were looking for one, I'd try to find a later model ('96 - '97) 8
cylinder, after the engine size went from 4.0 to 4.4 liters. I'd also
want the thing with a manual transmission, but you'll be hard pressed to
find such an animal. You do occasionally see an odd 850i with a
6-speed, but never the 840i. Maybe it was not even available that way?
Too bad, because that's what I would want.

Fred W
  #3  
Old June 1st 05, 04:18 PM
Griff
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I understand that the CSI is a manual, but the engine has so much
torque that it continually wears out the clutch (at least the friction
disk between the two plates). I don't know whether the non-CSI manuals
suffer from similar wear.

Was the 12 cylinder engine not used in any other model (750 for
example)?

  #4  
Old June 1st 05, 05:49 PM
bfd
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Agree, information here on the E31 8 series is some of the best you can
find! For example, do a search for Paul Michael Brown's E31 Buyer's
Guide. Its arguably the best info on 8 Series cars. Here's a link to
part 1:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/... 88eab7e2c1b3

Now go do a search for part 2....

  #5  
Old June 1st 05, 07:39 PM
Somebody
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"Griff" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I understand that the CSI is a manual, but the engine has so much
> torque that it continually wears out the clutch (at least the friction
> disk between the two plates). I don't know whether the non-CSI manuals
> suffer from similar wear.


If that's true, you can blame the owner for abusing it. A clutch shouldn't
wear twice as much when the engine has twice as much power -- from rest, the
extra power should be applied after the clutch plates are engaged, not while
they are engaging. Weight here will be more of a wear factor than engine
power. At shift time, a properly matched shift does not wear the clutch
plates at all, regardless of how much power is available.

Do a lot of mashed throttle drop clutch takeoffs and the extra power will
indeed wear the clutch harder. Which is abuse. As is slipping the clutch
on shifts, where extra power will again cause extra wear.

-Russ.


  #6  
Old June 1st 05, 08:19 PM
bfd
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I agree if the CSL clutch is "wearing out", then its due to driver
abuse. The BMW 850CSL clutch is the "upgrade" for the E39 M5 and E52
Z8:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/V8/index.htm

As the ad says, this clutch is setup to give "normal" lifespan
comparable to standard BMW models, 50K-80K miles depending on driving
style. If you're getting less mileage on your clutch than this, its
due to driver abuse.....

  #7  
Old June 1st 05, 08:41 PM
Malt_Hound
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Default

Griff wrote:
> I understand that the CSI is a manual, but the engine has so much
> torque that it continually wears out the clutch (at least the friction
> disk between the two plates). I don't know whether the non-CSI manuals
> suffer from similar wear.
>
> Was the 12 cylinder engine not used in any other model (750 for
> example)?
>


Yes it was, in much lower production volume.

-Fred W
  #8  
Old June 1st 05, 11:43 PM
Somebody
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"bfd" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I agree if the CSL clutch is "wearing out", then its due to driver
> abuse. The BMW 850CSL clutch is the "upgrade" for the E39 M5 and E52
> Z8:
>
> http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/V8/index.htm
>
> As the ad says, this clutch is setup to give "normal" lifespan
> comparable to standard BMW models, 50K-80K miles depending on driving
> style. If you're getting less mileage on your clutch than this, its
> due to driver abuse.....
>


50K to 80k miles? I just swapped mine out 'cause the throwout bearing
went -- 344,000km, could have put it back in but I had bought a kit anyway.

-Russ.


  #9  
Old June 2nd 05, 12:46 AM
Jeff Strickland
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"Somebody" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bfd" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > I agree if the CSL clutch is "wearing out", then its due to driver
> > abuse. The BMW 850CSL clutch is the "upgrade" for the E39 M5 and E52
> > Z8:
> >
> > http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/V8/index.htm
> >
> > As the ad says, this clutch is setup to give "normal" lifespan
> > comparable to standard BMW models, 50K-80K miles depending on driving
> > style. If you're getting less mileage on your clutch than this, its
> > due to driver abuse.....
> >

>
> 50K to 80k miles? I just swapped mine out 'cause the throwout bearing
> went -- 344,000km, could have put it back in but I had bought a kit

anyway.
>


I second that. I have a '94 325i and I replaced the factory clutch at
210,000 miles, and I did it because I was tired of listening to the
throw-out bearing howl its complaints everytime I depressed the pedal.

I'll accept the idea that the 8 Series and the 3 Series are not even
remotely similar once you get behind the Roundelo on the hood, but I reject
the notion that the standard is 50- to 80-thousand miles on a clutch.








  #10  
Old June 2nd 05, 06:47 AM
Trey
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Default


"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Somebody" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "bfd" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > I agree if the CSL clutch is "wearing out", then its due to driver
>> > abuse. The BMW 850CSL clutch is the "upgrade" for the E39 M5 and E52
>> > Z8:
>> >
>> > http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/V8/index.htm
>> >
>> > As the ad says, this clutch is setup to give "normal" lifespan
>> > comparable to standard BMW models, 50K-80K miles depending on driving
>> > style. If you're getting less mileage on your clutch than this, its
>> > due to driver abuse.....
>> >

>>
>> 50K to 80k miles? I just swapped mine out 'cause the throwout bearing
>> went -- 344,000km, could have put it back in but I had bought a kit

> anyway.
>>

>
> I second that. I have a '94 325i and I replaced the factory clutch at
> 210,000 miles, and I did it because I was tired of listening to the
> throw-out bearing howl its complaints everytime I depressed the pedal.
>
> I'll accept the idea that the 8 Series and the 3 Series are not even
> remotely similar once you get behind the Roundelo on the hood, but I
> reject
> the notion that the standard is 50- to 80-thousand miles on a clutch.


What kind of driving do you do? if its day after day of heavy metro traffic,
I can see it wearing out faster than if you commuted though the countryside.
When Im on the interstate on my motorcycle, I can cover over 100 miles
without touching the clutch. Get in the city, and the clutch gets used every
20 feet


 




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