M2 top/leaking help!!!

OK I've about had it!!

I have a 2000 Miata and any time there is a hard rain overnight, I get in
the car in the morning to find a gallon or more water standing in the
driver's side footwell. Some have suggested cleaning the "drains" but I
can't figure exactly what I'm supposed to be doing with this... is there a
drawing or some instructions somewhere to talk about cleaning the drains
specifically or do I need to just go buy a shop manual? I have the
"aquarium brushes" but they won't possibly fit into the slot at the bottom
rear edge of the front fender where I presume the "drain" is...

Looks like the rain is coming in through the joint at the top of the
windshield header, at the corner where the door/window edge mates with the
top and window header. I can see light through this spot when the top is
latched. Tightening the latch doesn't help, seems it's probably just an
issue with the design of the top and the flexibility of the window frame
that allows this place to leak. Looks like there's a "gutter" there that I
presume is trying to duct water away from the interior. Problem is I have
to park my car on a hill and water dripping in here would miss this "gutter"
and I'm sure that's how it's getting into the car.

So...

#1 will cleaning the "drains" help, and if so, how do I do that... where
are they, how do I get to them?

#2 can I get this corner of the top to seal so it doesn't let water in anyway?

Thanks!
-josh

This may sound bit simplistic, but I've made the same mistake, albeit
with a 93'. Are you sure you have the top closed tightly at the front?
I've sworn that the thing was seated properly only to realize that it
wasn't. and I've had to adjust the latches a few times to keep them at
peak tension.

Also, my car leaks just a smdge from the joint at the middle of the
window during a heavy rain if I don't consciously pull the two pieces
of rubber together. However, this is probably age related.

JJ

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 08:47:27 -0600, josh > wrote:

>OK I've about had it!!
>
>I have a 2000 Miata and any time there is a hard rain overnight, I get in
>the car in the morning to find a gallon or more water standing in the
>driver's side footwell. Some have suggested cleaning the "drains" but I
>can't figure exactly what I'm supposed to be doing with this... is there a
>drawing or some instructions somewhere to talk about cleaning the drains
>specifically or do I need to just go buy a shop manual? I have the
>"aquarium brushes" but they won't possibly fit into the slot at the bottom
>rear edge of the front fender where I presume the "drain" is...
>
>Looks like the rain is coming in through the joint at the top of the
>windshield header, at the corner where the door/window edge mates with the
>top and window header. I can see light through this spot when the top is
>latched. Tightening the latch doesn't help, seems it's probably just an
>issue with the design of the top and the flexibility of the window frame
>that allows this place to leak. Looks like there's a "gutter" there that I
>presume is trying to duct water away from the interior. Problem is I have
>to park my car on a hill and water dripping in here would miss this "gutter"
>and I'm sure that's how it's getting into the car.
>
>So...
>
>#1 will cleaning the "drains" help, and if so, how do I do that... where
>are they, how do I get to them?
>
>#2 can I get this corner of the top to seal so it doesn't let water in anyway?
>
>Thanks!
>-josh

If you see light thru the corner, Something is not right!
It's possible that you have a bad latch or alignment tip on the latch. The
"gutter" you refer to does not fit correctly, as you said. You may be able
to improve things by pushing out on the upper inside part of the door seal
at the inside of the "gutter.The edge of the seal will catch on the edge of
the plastic window post trim, and tend to help the "gutter" stay further
out.

"josh" > wrote in message
news:1099320708.974666@sj-nntpcache-3...
> OK I've about had it!!
>
> I have a 2000 Miata and any time there is a hard rain overnight, I get in
> the car in the morning to find a gallon or more water standing in the
> driver's side footwell. Some have suggested cleaning the "drains" but I
> can't figure exactly what I'm supposed to be doing with this... is there
> a drawing or some instructions somewhere to talk about cleaning the drains
> specifically or do I need to just go buy a shop manual? I have the
> "aquarium brushes" but they won't possibly fit into the slot at the bottom
> rear edge of the front fender where I presume the "drain" is...
>
> Looks like the rain is coming in through the joint at the top of the
> windshield header, at the corner where the door/window edge mates with the
> top and window header. I can see light through this spot when the top is
> latched. Tightening the latch doesn't help, seems it's probably just an
> issue with the design of the top and the flexibility of the window frame
> that allows this place to leak. Looks like there's a "gutter" there that
> I presume is trying to duct water away from the interior. Problem is I
> have to park my car on a hill and water dripping in here would miss this
> "gutter" and I'm sure that's how it's getting into the car.
>
> So...
>
> #1 will cleaning the "drains" help, and if so, how do I do that... where
> are they, how do I get to them?
>
> #2 can I get this corner of the top to seal so it doesn't let water in
> anyway?
>
> Thanks!
> -josh


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"chuckk" > wrote:

>If you see light thru the corner, Something is not right!
>It's possible that you have a bad latch or alignment tip on the latch.

Or that the window is not adjusted correctly. The enthusiast manual has
instructions, but I do not know whether they apply to the M2.

Leon

> The
>"gutter" you refer to does not fit correctly, as you said. You may be able
>to improve things by pushing out on the upper inside part of the door seal
>at the inside of the "gutter.The edge of the seal will catch on the edge of
>the plastic window post trim, and tend to help the "gutter" stay further
>out.
>
>"josh" > wrote in message
>news:1099320708.974666@sj-nntpcache-3...
>> OK I've about had it!!
>>
>> I have a 2000 Miata and any time there is a hard rain overnight, I get in
>> the car in the morning to find a gallon or more water standing in the
>> driver's side footwell. Some have suggested cleaning the "drains" but I
>> can't figure exactly what I'm supposed to be doing with this... is there
>> a drawing or some instructions somewhere to talk about cleaning the drains
>> specifically or do I need to just go buy a shop manual? I have the
>> "aquarium brushes" but they won't possibly fit into the slot at the bottom
>> rear edge of the front fender where I presume the "drain" is...
>>
>> Looks like the rain is coming in through the joint at the top of the
>> windshield header, at the corner where the door/window edge mates with the
>> top and window header. I can see light through this spot when the top is
>> latched. Tightening the latch doesn't help, seems it's probably just an
>> issue with the design of the top and the flexibility of the window frame
>> that allows this place to leak. Looks like there's a "gutter" there that
>> I presume is trying to duct water away from the interior. Problem is I
>> have to park my car on a hill and water dripping in here would miss this
>> "gutter" and I'm sure that's how it's getting into the car.
>>
>> So...
>>
>> #1 will cleaning the "drains" help, and if so, how do I do that... where
>> are they, how do I get to them?
>>
>> #2 can I get this corner of the top to seal so it doesn't let water in
>> anyway?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -josh
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is AVG certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
>

--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

I think (that might be a mistake!) that the Gutter refers to the rubber
catch cup at the top of the windshield frame. It is there to catch a leak,
or a sudden drain when the door is opened. Usually, it sets just a bit too
far in, and the water runs down to the floor, your pants, or whatever else
is in the way. If you push it out, so that the edge catches on the plastic
trim, it seems to work much better.

"Leon van Dommelen" > wrote in message
...
> "chuckk" > wrote:
>
>>If you see light thru the corner, Something is not right!
>>It's possible that you have a bad latch or alignment tip on the latch.
>
> Or that the window is not adjusted correctly. The enthusiast manual has
> instructions, but I do not know whether they apply to the M2.
>
> Leon
>
>> The
>>"gutter" you refer to does not fit correctly, as you said. You may be able
>>to improve things by pushing out on the upper inside part of the door seal
>>at the inside of the "gutter.The edge of the seal will catch on the edge
>>of
>>the plastic window post trim, and tend to help the "gutter" stay further
>>out.
>>
>>"josh" > wrote in message
>>news:1099320708.974666@sj-nntpcache-3...
>>> OK I've about had it!!
>>>
>>> I have a 2000 Miata and any time there is a hard rain overnight, I get
>>> in
>>> the car in the morning to find a gallon or more water standing in the
>>> driver's side footwell. Some have suggested cleaning the "drains" but I
>>> can't figure exactly what I'm supposed to be doing with this... is
>>> there
>>> a drawing or some instructions somewhere to talk about cleaning the
>>> drains
>>> specifically or do I need to just go buy a shop manual? I have the
>>> "aquarium brushes" but they won't possibly fit into the slot at the
>>> bottom
>>> rear edge of the front fender where I presume the "drain" is...
>>>
>>> Looks like the rain is coming in through the joint at the top of the
>>> windshield header, at the corner where the door/window edge mates with
>>> the
>>> top and window header. I can see light through this spot when the top
>>> is
>>> latched. Tightening the latch doesn't help, seems it's probably just an
>>> issue with the design of the top and the flexibility of the window frame
>>> that allows this place to leak. Looks like there's a "gutter" there
>>> that
>>> I presume is trying to duct water away from the interior. Problem is I
>>> have to park my car on a hill and water dripping in here would miss this
>>> "gutter" and I'm sure that's how it's getting into the car.
>>>
>>> So...
>>>
>>> #1 will cleaning the "drains" help, and if so, how do I do that...
>>> where
>>> are they, how do I get to them?
>>>
>>> #2 can I get this corner of the top to seal so it doesn't let water in
>>> anyway?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> -josh
>>
>>
>>---
>>Outgoing mail is AVG certified Virus Free.
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
>>
>
> --
> Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
> http://www.dommelen.net/miata
> EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)


---
Outgoing mail is AVG certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004

chuckk wrote:
> I think (that might be a mistake!) that the Gutter refers to the rubber
> catch cup at the top of the windshield frame. It is there to catch a leak,
> or a sudden drain when the door is opened. Usually, it sets just a bit too
> far in, and the water runs down to the floor, your pants, or whatever else
> is in the way. If you push it out, so that the edge catches on the plastic
> trim, it seems to work much better.

That's what I meant by "gutter"...

I will try pushing it out.

The latch is pretty tight, but I'll see if I can tighten it a bit...
problem is the latch does not "catch" so if it gets much tighter, it springs
back open. This is the third set of latches in 4 years, I'm tired of
replacing them.

With the latches released, does front edge of the top line up with the
windshield side to side, and front to back, or is it off a bit.
Fixing this usually involves loosening the screws where the top bolts to the
body.
..
Also, the top side seals can be adjused by moving the metal tracks. There
are screws under the rubber side seals.
Another possible leak is due to a split or chunk missing from the door
window seal at the front top of the glass.

Might the top side seals above the door shrunk, due to outside parking in
the sun?


"josh" > wrote in message
news:1099496928.648516@sj-nntpcache-5...
> chuckk wrote:
>> I think (that might be a mistake!) that the Gutter refers to the rubber
>> catch cup at the top of the windshield frame. It is there to catch a
>> leak, or a sudden drain when the door is opened. Usually, it sets just a
>> bit too far in, and the water runs down to the floor, your pants, or
>> whatever else is in the way. If you push it out, so that the edge catches
>> on the plastic trim, it seems to work much better.
>
> That's what I meant by "gutter"...
>
> I will try pushing it out.
>
> The latch is pretty tight, but I'll see if I can tighten it a bit...
> problem is the latch does not "catch" so if it gets much tighter, it
> springs back open. This is the third set of latches in 4 years, I'm tired
> of replacing them.


---
Outgoing mail is AVG certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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chuckk wrote:
> With the latches released, does front edge of the top line up with the
> windshield side to side, and front to back, or is it off a bit.
> Fixing this usually involves loosening the screws where the top bolts to the
> body.

It's off... whole top front edge is shifted to the left a little bit (like
1/4" or so) before latched. It pulls it in "straight" when it latches.
Funny, it's been this way since it was brand new and I've had it into the
dealer (when the full warranty was still in effect) no less than FOUR TIMES
to fix top leaking problems and they never fixed this.

> .
> Also, the top side seals can be adjused by moving the metal tracks. There
> are screws under the rubber side seals.

I'll look for that.

> Another possible leak is due to a split or chunk missing from the door
> window seal at the front top of the glass.
>
> Might the top side seals above the door shrunk, due to outside parking in
> the sun?

You're talking about the top edge of the window seal, right? rubber piece,
runs around the top edge of the door window? Yeah, there's a chunk missing
from there and it's split. Again, this is about the fourth set of these
window rubbers that the car has had and this part splits/chunk comes off
within a month of replacing it with a new part. Warranty ran out, I quit
taking it back for that problem.

Seems like in 10+ years of building basically the same car, Mazda would
figure out how to make door window seals last more than a couple of months,
and how to make top latches last more than a couple of months, etc.

Yes of course the car's parked outside in hot weather... I'm in Austin, TX!
It's hot from March to November and the car sits parked outside while I'm
at work 200 days a year.

josh wrote:

>
> Seems like in 10+ years of building basically the same car, Mazda would
> figure out how to make door window seals last more than a couple of
> months, and how to make top latches last more than a couple of months, etc.
>
> Yes of course the car's parked outside in hot weather... I'm in Austin,
> TX! It's hot from March to November and the car sits parked outside
> while I'm at work 200 days a year.

Something else is wrong. I am also in Austin and never had to replace
the latches or the rubber seals in 5 years of driving, usually parking
it outside in the sun. I have been driving a borrowed 1991 model that
has been an Austin sun sitter for over 10 years and it still has it's
original rubber seal and latches, though the roof is new.

Which dealership did you take it to? The difference between Mazda North
and Mazda South is amazing.
If it were my car, I would take it to John Long. If he can't fix it, I
doubt if anyone can, and his rates are very good. Here is his website if
you have not been there before.
http://www.jlongautoworks.com/home.html

Pat

pws wrote:
> josh wrote:

>
> Something else is wrong. I am also in Austin and never had to replace
> the latches or the rubber seals in 5 years of driving, usually parking
> it outside in the sun.

Well it's too late now... I need to find my extended warranty paperwork and
see if this is covered. 36kmi warranty is out and I'm not about to cough up
the hundreds of dollars it takes to replace the top latches, etc. But I am
about ready to remove them and see if there's a way to repair them.

This was from Roger Beasley Mazda "North" (back then, it wasn't really
called "Mazda North") on Burnet Rd. I was never happy with their service
dept, but #1 I live in Cedar Park so getting the car to Mazda South is major
problem, and #2 the one time I did try and get some work done at Mazda South
they said I'd have to leave the car overnight (for an alignment!!!) and it
turned out to just be too much trouble.