BMW 'Goodwill'

"Neil" > wrote
> "Paul Aspinall" > wrote
>> However, I am wondering what BMW's stance would be, if something went
> wrong
>> with the engine / gearbox on my 745Li, if it were not under warranty.
>> What would they do, with regards to 'Goodwill'??
>> I believe that an engine / gearbox on a £78000 car should last at least
>> 200,000 miles.....
>>
> What follows are my opinions, which may differ from those of others.

Nice post (and I'm not being sarcastic.)

> I suspect if your car failed outside of warranty, that you'd get little
> goodwill. Possible exception might be if it failed after just passing the
> mileage limit, but I'm speculating.

I would agree with your speculation: don't count on goodwill. Although
BMW has decided *in specific instances* to cover some things or extend
warranties (note the recent M3 engine problems and the nikasil problems
in the '90s), unless they decide it's their fault in design/testing, it's
not
gonna happen. Remember, they buy transmissions from Getrag and
GM, and parts from other suppliers that have met BMW's "spec".
Another thing to note is that the dealer is only re-imbursed by BMW
at specific rates and for only the warranty period - you have to ask
if your dealer would cover the cost out of their till, or go to the trouble
to get the work re-imbursed by BMW for out-of-warranty repairs.

> I agree that ideally, life span of engine/transmission and any other
> component would be directly related to the price you pay, but that would
> mean those of use that can't afford a car that costs more money than we
> earn
> in 2 years, would be stuck with more affordable vehicles that only last
> 20,000 miles.

In most cases (note recent GM advertisements for Allison transmissions
in GMC/Chevy trucks in the US), lifetimes beyond around 100K are not
important to most consumers and manufacturers. A BMW is just
a car, and has only to compete with other cars.

On the subject of the tone of responses, don't forget that many BMW
aficionados are "old school", work on their own cars, love 2002s, E12s
and such, don't think much of the complexity of the newer BMWs,
and look down on the nouveau-BMW-buyers.

Floyd

"fbloogyudsr" > wrote in message
...

<snip>
>
> On the subject of the tone of responses, don't forget that many BMW
> aficionados are "old school", work on their own cars, love 2002s, E12s
> and such, don't think much of the complexity of the newer BMWs,
> and look down on the nouveau-BMW-buyers.
>
> Floyd
>

This is a good point, if not particularly comforting to newcomers to the
marque, and/or purchasers of anything newer than an E36 perhaps.

It's funny because back when the E28 was new, I remember reading an article
in a UK automotive magazine saying something along the lines of your average
non-BMW service centre not having the technology available to be able to
correctly service anything in the E28 range *above* the 518i. I might be
some what off on the details, but my point is that what the home mechanic of
1985 was able to cope with was far less than the home mechanic of today.
Who knows, perhaps in 20 years time my new-born daughter will be servicing
the iDrive in her old school E90!

I'd certainly like to return to the early 80s when I recall fellow "BM"
owners waving to one another as they pass. You didn't need to join a car
club or internet forum back then to feel part of a community.

I think this vast increase in the extended warranty price is related to a
very recent change in the law applicable to such warranties. You can't
blame BMW for this.

There is another thread also started on 23 May but a bit earlier ("UK BMW
warranties") mentioning this.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Malt_Hound" > wrote in message
...
> Paul Aspinall wrote:
[...]
>
>> In addition, I was told at the time of sale, that the BMW extended
>> warranty would be £1553 for 3 extra years.... now its £1536 for 1
>> year!!!!
>
> You were *told*? Hah. Well then, you should have purchased the warranty
> at that time, then you would have known what the cost would be.
>
> How on earth could you (or anyone) receive a quote for this (or anything)
> and expect it to remain the same three years later?
[...]

I had been thinking exactly that even before you posted this.

An apposite anecdote, even if it refers only to shoes:
Last week I walked into a Bally shoe shop to complain that my Bally shoe
wasn't standing up to wear and tear as well as my Clark's shoe at about half
the price.

If substituting "BMW/car" for "shoe" the answer from the salesperson was
just about a copy of your comments below.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Neil" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>
> I think it's fair to want a more expensive car to last as long if not
> longer
> than a cheaper car, but the reality is that you're not paying more for a
> BMW
> than a Ford solely because of the expectation that it will have a longer
> life. For your money you're also getting prestige, performance,
> exclusivety, handling, creature comforts, etc.
>
> The fact is that your technically superior BMW while better in 9 out of 10
> categories for example, may well not last as long as a Ford
[...]

> Because I paid =A378000 for a car, and I believe it should have a
better
> warranty than 3 years.

Most folks that pay that much for a car don't keep them much past that,
if that long, even.
At least around here in the land of Bigger-Better-Faster-More, that's
the case.
Can't be seen driving last year's model, you know..

I thank these people for taking the heavy depreciation hit that allow
me to buy lightly used BMWs & Porsches at reasonable prices... Rather
than having payments we get repair bills. See 'Takes your chances...'


cds

"Malt_Hound" > wrote in message
...
> Paul Aspinall wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Because I paid £78000 for a car, and I believe it should have a better
>> warranty than 3 years.
>
> Now you know the difference between perception and reality. You may exist
> in either one, your choice...
>
>> In addition, I was told at the time of sale, that the BMW extended
>> warranty would be £1553 for 3 extra years.... now its £1536 for 1
>> year!!!!
>
> You were *told*? Hah. Well then, you should have purchased the warranty
> at that time, then you would have known what the cost would be.
>
> How on earth could you (or anyone) receive a quote for this (or anything)
> and expect it to remain the same three years later?
>
> Are you really this naive?

No, because I only bought the car 12 months ago.... not three years ago.

Your tone is very demeaning... which is probably indicative of why you are
not riding round in a 745Li.

>
> -Fred W

Many thanks for your constructive response.

I am merely trying to elicit opinions, and get the views.... Some agree,
some disagree.... thats fair enough to me.....

I agree with your sentiments that we should expect more from a car bought at
£78000, than one for £18000
It seems there are too many 'smart as**s' in the NG, who have probably never
been in the position of having a £78000 car on their hands, and therefore
are unsympathetic to those that do.

Thanks for your comments and constructive discussion


"Neil" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul Aspinall" > wrote in message
> . uk...
>> Hi
>> I have put another post in the NG, asking about BMW warranties....
>>
>> However, I am wondering what BMW's stance would be, if something went
> wrong
>> with the engine / gearbox on my 745Li, if it were not under warranty.
>> What would they do, with regards to 'Goodwill'??
>> I believe that an engine / gearbox on a £78000 car should last at least
>> 200,000 miles.....
>>
>
> What follows are my opinions, which may differ from those of others.
>
> I think it's fair to want a more expensive car to last as long if not
> longer
> than a cheaper car, but the reality is that you're not paying more for a
> BMW
> than a Ford solely because of the expectation that it will have a longer
> life. For your money you're also getting prestige, performance,
> exclusivety, handling, creature comforts, etc.
>
> The fact is that your technically superior BMW while better in 9 out of 10
> categories for example, may well not last as long as a Ford before
> requiring
> expensive maintenance. Factors that may affect the need for maintenance
> of
> your BMW include the previously mentioned creature comforts (the greater
> the
> number of moving parts and electrical components the increased likelihood
> that something will go wrong), and the fact that BMW produce fewer
> vehicles
> than Ford meaning fewer economies of scale.
>
> I suspect if your car failed outside of warranty, that you'd get little
> goodwill. Possible exception might be if it failed after just passing the
> mileage limit, but I'm speculating.
>
> I agree that ideally, life span of engine/transmission and any other
> component would be directly related to the price you pay, but that would
> mean those of use that can't afford a car that costs more money than we
> earn
> in 2 years, would be stuck with more affordable vehicles that only last
> 20,000 miles.
>
> I can certainly see the appeal of leasing a new BMW and returning it for a
> new model at the end of the lease period. If I had the funds to be able
> to
> purchase a 745Li, I'd do it with the expectation that I may have to spend
> significant sums on maintenance the longer I kept it.
>
> As a side note, there's a 1991 750il with only 88k miles advertised for
> sale
> locally to me, and the seller only wants $4,000. I don't expect what was
> once BMW's flagship vehicle to last another 112k miles before requiring
> what
> is likely to be very expensive engine or transmission work,
> notwithstanding
> the fact that the vehicle may have been abused.
>
> I hope my reply comes across as more empathetic than those of others, as
> that was my intention. It's surprising to me that you should receive such
> unempathic responses from a group that -- I think it's fair to assume --
> are
> in a similar position regarding costs of purchasing and maintaining what
> some consider the best* cars in the world.
>
> Of course the fact that others are in the same metaphorical boat would
> explain the automatic reaction of 'look before you leap'. It's my
> experience with many usenet groups, that there are many more silent
> individuals agreeing with you, than there are those that disagree and say
> as
> much.
>
> *If not measured by cost of ownership.
>
>

Good reply

Thanks for the constructive commenst to the post.

Cheers

"fbloogyudsr" > wrote in message
...
> "Neil" > wrote
>> "Paul Aspinall" > wrote
>>> However, I am wondering what BMW's stance would be, if something went
>> wrong
>>> with the engine / gearbox on my 745Li, if it were not under warranty.
>>> What would they do, with regards to 'Goodwill'??
>>> I believe that an engine / gearbox on a £78000 car should last at least
>>> 200,000 miles.....
>>>
>> What follows are my opinions, which may differ from those of others.
>
> Nice post (and I'm not being sarcastic.)
>
>> I suspect if your car failed outside of warranty, that you'd get little
>> goodwill. Possible exception might be if it failed after just passing
>> the
>> mileage limit, but I'm speculating.
>
> I would agree with your speculation: don't count on goodwill. Although
> BMW has decided *in specific instances* to cover some things or extend
> warranties (note the recent M3 engine problems and the nikasil problems
> in the '90s), unless they decide it's their fault in design/testing, it's
> not
> gonna happen. Remember, they buy transmissions from Getrag and
> GM, and parts from other suppliers that have met BMW's "spec".
> Another thing to note is that the dealer is only re-imbursed by BMW
> at specific rates and for only the warranty period - you have to ask
> if your dealer would cover the cost out of their till, or go to the
> trouble
> to get the work re-imbursed by BMW for out-of-warranty repairs.
>
>> I agree that ideally, life span of engine/transmission and any other
>> component would be directly related to the price you pay, but that would
>> mean those of use that can't afford a car that costs more money than we
>> earn
>> in 2 years, would be stuck with more affordable vehicles that only last
>> 20,000 miles.
>
> In most cases (note recent GM advertisements for Allison transmissions
> in GMC/Chevy trucks in the US), lifetimes beyond around 100K are not
> important to most consumers and manufacturers. A BMW is just
> a car, and has only to compete with other cars.
>
> On the subject of the tone of responses, don't forget that many BMW
> aficionados are "old school", work on their own cars, love 2002s, E12s
> and such, don't think much of the complexity of the newer BMWs,
> and look down on the nouveau-BMW-buyers.
>
> Floyd

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Because I paid £78000 for a car, and I believe it should have a
better
> warranty than 3 years.


Could always buy a Hyundai -- I'm sure they'd be happy to accept £78000 for
one and give you 10 years warranty.

-Russ.

On Tue, 24 May 2005 19:45:40 GMT, "Paul Aspinall" >
wrote:

>Your tone is very demeaning... which is probably indicative of why you are
>not riding round in a 745Li.

That's funny. Do you know what a non sequitur is? I'm just
curious...
--
Dan.