USURPER floats plan to tax cars by the mile

Brent wrote:
>
> On 2011-05-06, Pete C. > wrote:
> >
> > "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 05 May 2011 10:19:48 -0500, cuhulin wrote:
> >>
> >> > http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=307239 cuhulin
> >>
> >> We already HAVE a Per Mile tax: it's called the Federal Gas Tax. The more
> >> you drive, the more you pay.
> >
> > That worked when everyone used gas or diesel. Now with electric,
> > home-brew bio-diesel and the like, some people are using the roads
> > without paying the taxes that are supposed to maintain them.
>
> First, those make up a trivial amount of road users.

Trivial for now, but growing fairly rapidly.

>
> Second, the revenuers do visit the people making their bio-fuels, well
> at least they do in Illinois.

Fortunately, some of us are smart enough not to live there.

>
> Third, Making home brew bio fuels takes time and effort that is for
> someone smart enough to make their own bio fuel is generally worth more
> than the taxes and fuel. So they have to like to do it. When these
> people number more than one out of every million or so road users it
> might be a problem worth addressing.

This much is true, and those doing DIY bio fuels are likely doing so at
a final cost per mile greater than pump fuel.

>
> Fourth, electrics require a special charging circuit.

Huh? A 240V outlet is anything but special and anyone with 1/4 of a clue
or a buddy with 1/4 of a clue can readily install one.

"Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote:
>
> On Fri, 06 May 2011 07:25:07 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> >
> > "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 05 May 2011 10:19:48 -0500, cuhulin wrote:
> >>
> >> > http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=307239 cuhulin
> >>
> >> We already HAVE a Per Mile tax: it's called the Federal Gas Tax. The
> >> more you drive, the more you pay.
> >
> > That worked when everyone used gas or diesel. Now with electric, home-brew
> > bio-diesel and the like, some people are using the roads without paying
> > the taxes that are supposed to maintain them.
>
> Have a look in alt.autos.toyota for the answer.
>
> Short: you calculate avg fuel economy, and then weight it so more fuel
> efficient vehicles get the per mile tax.

That is another place people get confused, efficiency vs. economy. MPG
is only a measure of economy, not efficiency. A vehicle with a higher
MPG may actually be less efficient than one with a lower MPG.

On Fri, 06 May 2011 07:25:07 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 05 May 2011 10:19:48 -0500, cuhulin wrote:
>>
>> > http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=307239 cuhulin
>>
>> We already HAVE a Per Mile tax: it's called the Federal Gas Tax. The
>> more you drive, the more you pay.
>
> That worked when everyone used gas or diesel. Now with electric, home-brew
> bio-diesel and the like, some people are using the roads without paying
> the taxes that are supposed to maintain them.


Have a look in alt.autos.toyota for the answer.

Short: you calculate avg fuel economy, and then weight it so more fuel
efficient vehicles get the per mile tax.

On Fri, 06 May 2011 19:54:41 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 06 May 2011 07:25:07 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>
>> > "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 05 May 2011 10:19:48 -0500, cuhulin wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=307239
>> >> > cuhulin
>> >>
>> >> We already HAVE a Per Mile tax: it's called the Federal Gas Tax. The
>> >> more you drive, the more you pay.
>> >
>> > That worked when everyone used gas or diesel. Now with electric,
>> > home-brew bio-diesel and the like, some people are using the roads
>> > without paying the taxes that are supposed to maintain them.
>>
>> Have a look in alt.autos.toyota for the answer.
>>
>> Short: you calculate avg fuel economy, and then weight it so more fuel
>> efficient vehicles get the per mile tax.
>
> That is another place people get confused, efficiency vs. economy. MPG is
> only a measure of economy, not efficiency. A vehicle with a higher MPG may
> actually be less efficient than one with a lower MPG.


That's OK. All my cars get ~30 MPG average, I've been driving
fuel-efficient cars ALL my life since I started driving, and I don't want
to pay their foolish tax.


The worst car I've ever owned got 27MPG average.

On 2011-05-07, Pete C. > wrote:
>
> Brent wrote:
>>
>> On 2011-05-06, Pete C. > wrote:
>> >
>> > "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 05 May 2011 10:19:48 -0500, cuhulin wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=307239 cuhulin
>> >>
>> >> We already HAVE a Per Mile tax: it's called the Federal Gas Tax. The more
>> >> you drive, the more you pay.
>> >
>> > That worked when everyone used gas or diesel. Now with electric,
>> > home-brew bio-diesel and the like, some people are using the roads
>> > without paying the taxes that are supposed to maintain them.
>>
>> First, those make up a trivial amount of road users.
>
> Trivial for now, but growing fairly rapidly.

Which considering the overall picture is from zero to zero.

>> Second, the revenuers do visit the people making their bio-fuels, well
>> at least they do in Illinois.
>
> Fortunately, some of us are smart enough not to live there.

Many states are trying to.

>> Third, Making home brew bio fuels takes time and effort that is for
>> someone smart enough to make their own bio fuel is generally worth more
>> than the taxes and fuel. So they have to like to do it. When these
>> people number more than one out of every million or so road users it
>> might be a problem worth addressing.

> This much is true, and those doing DIY bio fuels are likely doing so at
> a final cost per mile greater than pump fuel.

Exactly, you have to value your own labor at a very low rate or zero.

>> Fourth, electrics require a special charging circuit.

> Huh? A 240V outlet is anything but special and anyone with 1/4 of a clue
> or a buddy with 1/4 of a clue can readily install one.

Special in that many if not most homes do not have one. Special in the
amount of current required. Anyone who hasn't put one in for a wood
shop, welding, or wants to park their car in the kitchen or
laundry room... is going to have to have a circuit put in.

As to my original point, Anyone with a 1/4 of a clue can by-pass the
electric meter too.

On Fri, 06 May 2011 19:54:41 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>
> That is another place people get confused, efficiency vs. economy. MPG is
> only a measure of economy, not efficiency. A vehicle with a higher MPG may
> actually be less efficient than one with a lower MPG.

Yes, and while efficiency has increased a lot over the last few decades,
economy hasn't really got all that much better.

The MGB isn't very efficient but it's remarkably economical.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> On Fri, 06 May 2011 19:54:41 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>> That is another place people get confused, efficiency vs. economy. MPG is
>> only a measure of economy, not efficiency. A vehicle with a higher MPG may
>> actually be less efficient than one with a lower MPG.
>
> Yes, and while efficiency has increased a lot over the last few decades,
> economy hasn't really got all that much better.
>
> The MGB isn't very efficient but it's remarkably economical.

Once I got enough Delco in mine, it was pretty reliable too.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sat, 07 May 2011 10:21:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 May 2011 19:54:41 -0500, Pete C. wrote:
>>> That is another place people get confused, efficiency vs. economy. MPG
>>> is only a measure of economy, not efficiency. A vehicle with a higher
>>> MPG may actually be less efficient than one with a lower MPG.
>>
>> Yes, and while efficiency has increased a lot over the last few decades,
>> economy hasn't really got all that much better.
>>
>> The MGB isn't very efficient but it's remarkably economical.
>
> Once I got enough Delco in mine, it was pretty reliable too.


Didn't appreciate Lucas, the Prince of Darkness?

(It's a joke! All you Brit fanciers back down...)

"Roger Blake" > wrote in message
...

> So levy a special tax on alternative-fuel vehicles.
>
> --

I believe I saw that since 9/11 we have given Pakistan over
$18 billion in foreign aid. I suspect we have a lot of other
freeloaders on our foreign aid list, not to mention the money
that is wasted by the government domestically.

Maybe the infamous 535 +1 could rein in the spending and
get rid of or decrease greatly some of the taxes

On Sun, 08 May 2011 09:04:41 -0500, hls wrote:

>
> "Roger Blake" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> So levy a special tax on alternative-fuel vehicles.
>>
>> --
>
> I believe I saw that since 9/11 we have given Pakistan over $18 billion in
> foreign aid. I suspect we have a lot of other freeloaders on our foreign
> aid list, not to mention the money that is wasted by the government
> domestically.
>
> Maybe the infamous 535 +1 could rein in the spending and get rid of or
> decrease greatly some of the taxes


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Label this one "DREAMER"!