'99 E39 -- Is this a lemon?

I've got a '99 528it wagon. Bought it used nearly 2 years ago, with the BMW
certified warranty, which expires at the end of 2005. It now has 55K miles
on the clock.

Here's my quandary. Since owning the car, I've had to bring it in to the
local dealer at least five times. (This contrasts with the 1991 525i I had
previously, which required only one trip to the dealer in four
years...although the warranty incents me to take it there, I'd admit.)

The tailgate actuator (locking mechanism) broke (and it had broken for the
previousl owner also.

The high-pressure power steering hose failed twice in 11 months.

The driver's window came lose from the regulator.

The ABS system crashed and was replaced.

I have every reason to expect the level of failures to INCREASE rather than
decrease. I find this unacceptable and am thinking about selling this car.

What do you think?

Monsieur Big Stuff wrote:
> I've got a '99 528it wagon. Bought it used nearly 2 years ago, with
the BMW
> certified warranty, which expires at the end of 2005. It now has 55K
miles
> on the clock.
>
> Here's my quandary. Since owning the car, I've had to bring it in to
the
> local dealer at least five times. (This contrasts with the 1991
525i I had
> previously, which required only one trip to the dealer in four
> years...although the warranty incents me to take it there, I'd
admit.)
>
> The tailgate actuator (locking mechanism) broke (and it had broken
for the
> previousl owner also.
>
> The high-pressure power steering hose failed twice in 11 months.
>
> The driver's window came lose from the regulator.
>
> The ABS system crashed and was replaced.
>
> I have every reason to expect the level of failures to INCREASE
rather than
> decrease. I find this unacceptable and am thinking about selling
this car.
>
> What do you think?


I'll give you *Five Thousand* bucks for that POS.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

"Monsieur Big Stuff" > wrote in message
news
> I've got a '99 528it wagon. Bought it used nearly 2 years ago, with the
> BMW certified warranty, which expires at the end of 2005. It now has 55K
> miles on the clock.
>
> Here's my quandary. Since owning the car, I've had to bring it in to the
> local dealer at least five times. (This contrasts with the 1991 525i I
> had previously, which required only one trip to the dealer in four
> years...although the warranty incents me to take it there, I'd admit.)
>
> The tailgate actuator (locking mechanism) broke (and it had broken for the
> previousl owner also.
>
> The high-pressure power steering hose failed twice in 11 months.
>
> The driver's window came lose from the regulator.
>
> The ABS system crashed and was replaced.
>
> I have every reason to expect the level of failures to INCREASE rather
> than decrease. I find this unacceptable and am thinking about selling
> this car.
>
> What do you think?
>
I got rid of my 1999 523 because it had too many faults (some of which the
$tealer wasn't prepared to fix but that's another story!)
In my personal opinion, it was definitely a lemon. I've said it before here
and I'll say it again (and no doubt get flamed again for doing so, by the
small minded minority that refuse to believe E39's can be faulty) I
personally think the E39 is becoming a victim of its own over-rated success.
It's a good car, yes, but not quite as good as some magazine reports would
have us believe, most reports are based on the intro of the E39, when it
really was a leap forward with no real competition to speak of. The other
manufacturers have caught up since then, and possibly even overtaken.
My 2001 330d on the other hand has had a couple of niggly intermittent
faults, you know, the annoying kind that take a few visits to get fixed, but
other than that it's been ok.
Badger.

> What do you think?
>
BMWs can last almost forever but require many repairs. I had
following:
clutch
manual gearbox noisy and replaced
one power window
suspension
leaking engine
broken water expansion tank
several electrical sensors
trunk lock actuator
leaking air con
frozen locks

If you want a reliable car, you're probably better off with a japanese car
e.g. Lexus or Subaru.

--
Best regards.
Giovanni Tarantino
Bevaix (NE)
Switzerland
1997 Audi A4 2.8 Q 234,000 km (144,000 miles)
1997 BMW 535i 233,000 km (144,000 miles)

Badger wrote:

snip

> >
> I got rid of my 1999 523 because it had too many faults (some of
which the
> $tealer wasn't prepared to fix but that's another story!)
> In my personal opinion, it was definitely a lemon. I've said it
before here
> and I'll say it again (and no doubt get flamed again for doing so, by
the
> small minded minority that refuse to believe E39's can be faulty)


Badger, I think there may be a problem with you.

Once again, you decide to ridicule the car (which is OK to do) but you
blatantly omit the fact that you found evidence the car was in a big
accident before you bought it used.

How in the world can anyone make an accurate assessment on any model
based on a possibly-salvaged car?

I think I regret having tried to help you with your problem at the
time.


> I
> personally think the E39 is becoming a victim of its own over-rated
success.
> It's a good car, yes, but not quite as good as some magazine reports
would
> have us believe, most reports are based on the intro of the E39, when
it
> really was a leap forward with no real competition to speak of. The
other
> manufacturers have caught up since then, and possibly even overtaken.
> My 2001 330d on the other hand has had a couple of niggly
intermittent
> faults, you know, the annoying kind that take a few visits to get
fixed, but
> other than that it's been ok.
> Badger.

In article . com>,
Michael Low > wrote:
> Badger, I think there may be a problem with you.

> Once again, you decide to ridicule the car (which is OK to do) but you
> blatantly omit the fact that you found evidence the car was in a big
> accident before you bought it used.

> How in the world can anyone make an accurate assessment on any model
> based on a possibly-salvaged car?

> I think I regret having tried to help you with your problem at the
> time.

It also goes rather against the 'straw poll' that is the bmwe39 group.
With around 1000 readers, it will give a reasonable statistically accurate
result. And pretty well agrees with consumer surveys.

Of course, every make of car will have its lemon or two. Add in a poor
dealer and you have the answer.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Monsieur Big Stuff wrote:
> I've got a '99 528it wagon. Bought it used nearly 2 years ago, with
the BMW
> certified warranty, which expires at the end of 2005. It now has 55K
miles
> on the clock.
>
> Here's my quandary. Since owning the car, I've had to bring it in to
the
> local dealer at least five times. (This contrasts with the 1991
525i I had
> previously, which required only one trip to the dealer in four
> years...although the warranty incents me to take it there, I'd
admit.)
>
> The tailgate actuator (locking mechanism) broke (and it had broken
for the
> previousl owner also.
>
> The high-pressure power steering hose failed twice in 11 months.
>
> The driver's window came lose from the regulator.
>
> The ABS system crashed and was replaced.
>
> I have every reason to expect the level of failures to INCREASE
rather than
> decrease. I find this unacceptable and am thinking about selling
this car.
>
> What do you think?


IMO, you've had more than your share of problems. However, they seem
all relatively minor (I presume the ABS problem was the control module
or a sensor).

I think it's a toss-up whether you should sell the car. How many
km/miles have you put in it since you bought it? If you've done 40,000
to 50,000 km then perhaps the car is OK except for wear and tear items
- which can still be expensive but you will get that with any used car
of a certain age. When you buy another used car you are essentially
trading for a new set of unknowns.

If you've got those problems with a low mileage car then maybe you can
still get a decent price for it and maybe it's not worth "finding out"
whether the car's a lemon.

The E39 was never completely trouble-free but most only had the odd
minor problem. In fact, all BMWs tend to be like that - in the old
days, one claim was that BMWs were cheaper than Mercedes to buy but you
paid more in maintenance. Of course, Mercedes have had their recent
problems with reliability too. With BMWs, it's more like a high
maintenance relationship with a sexy number that ultimately still
performs and won't strand you if you pay her enough attention. ;#)
OTOH, if you'd rather be a passenger but still have to be the driver,
you would be better off in a Lexus.

"Michael Low" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Badger wrote:
>
> snip
>
>> >
>> I got rid of my 1999 523 because it had too many faults (some of
> which the
>> $tealer wasn't prepared to fix but that's another story!)
>> In my personal opinion, it was definitely a lemon. I've said it
> before here
>> and I'll say it again (and no doubt get flamed again for doing so, by
> the
>> small minded minority that refuse to believe E39's can be faulty)
>
>
> Badger, I think there may be a problem with you.

No, the problems were definitely with the car, and possibly the rose-tinted
spectacles that some owners insist on wearing. <grin>

> Once again, you decide to ridicule the car (which is OK to do) but you
> blatantly omit the fact that you found evidence the car was in a big
> accident before you bought it used.

As I said, "(some of which the $tealer wasn't prepared to fix but that's
another story!)"
The issue asked about here was faults, NOT accident damage, which was what
my comment above referred to, rather than digging up old ground. The
accident damage was only one of many faults that my car exhibited, in the 3
months that I was unfortunate enough to own it.

Stiff gear selection, sometimes baulking.
Excessive free-play in gear linkage.
Uncommanded speed increase when in cruise.
Failed door lock motor.
Rattles from front right wheel on bad bumps.
Occasional vibration from propshaft centre bearing due to rubber mount
perished.
Oil leak from gearbox output shaft seal.
Occasional severe clutch judder.

>
> How in the world can anyone make an accurate assessment on any model
> based on a possibly-salvaged car?

It wasn't salvaged, it had gone off the road and damaged (mild buckle) 3 of
the 4 wheel rims and had signs of accident repair at the left hand rear
light cluster (different colour body sealant on inside). There's a big
difference between that and salvaged! The main issue was vibration due to
the damaged wheels/tyres and the fact that the $tealer wouldn't replace the
tyres even when a tyre fitter said they had carcass damage. Could have been
something as simple as avoidance of another accident and going over a kerb,
the rear repair could have been a simple parking accident, yes?
>
> I think I regret having tried to help you with your problem at the
> time.

Well, that's your choice then.
As I have said already, the E39 is a good car, it's just that mine wasn't. I
still maintain that it is a "very good" car, struggling to live up to an
over-rated "exemplary" reputation. If you cannot partake of a civil
conversation on the subject or permit me the freedom of speech and opinion
that I am entitled to without resorting to flaming, then don't bother
responding to what I write.

Please allow me to re-quote:-

and I'll say it again (and no doubt get flamed again for doing so, by
> the
>> small minded minority that refuse to believe E39's can be faulty)
>

Badger.

Badger, you simply need to inform readers that your opinions are based
on a single car that was in an accident violent enough to damage 3 rims
and the rear cluster; an accident that the "stealer" chose not to
inform you of.

In such a situation, it is not possible to say if subsequent problems
may or may not be attributable to a "lemon" or poor design. There's no
"rose-coloured glasses" issue involved with your car. It simply isn't
possible to tell if all the accident damage was fully repaired to spec.
In fact, I believe your postings at the time indicated some of the
repairs weren't adequate.

Actually, "Big Stuff"'s CPO 528iT could also have hidden damage but the
problems he mentioned don't seem immediately related to an accident so
I assumed they are more likely attributed to basic reliability issues.

> I've got a '99 528it wagon. Bought it used nearly 2 years ago, with the
> BMW certified warranty, which expires at the end of 2005. It now has 55K
> miles on the clock.
>
> Here's my quandary. Since owning the car, I've had to bring it in to the
> local dealer at least five times. (This contrasts with the 1991 525i I
> had previously, which required only one trip to the dealer in four
> years...although the warranty incents me to take it there, I'd admit.)
>
> The tailgate actuator (locking mechanism) broke (and it had broken for the
> previousl owner also.
>
> The high-pressure power steering hose failed twice in 11 months.
>
> The driver's window came lose from the regulator.
>
> The ABS system crashed and was replaced.
>
> I have every reason to expect the level of failures to INCREASE rather
> than decrease. I find this unacceptable and am thinking about selling
> this car.
>
> What do you think?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've had two E39 BMW's, a '97 sedan and an '00 wagon. Both were leased, and
due to an unrealistic residual, returned at lease end. Aside from a recall
issue on the sedan and normal maintenance on both, I only recall two trips
to the dealer - both on the sedan. Heated seats developed a hot spot and
trunk latch died. I was told that the electrically assisted latch doesn't
like to be slammed, yet this is how one usually closes a trunk or tailgate.
I got the impression that it was a VERY common repair.

Looking to downsize, buy rather than lease (no longer able to expense) and
thinking I was in need of a change, I bought an MB C320 wagon recently -
used '02 model with the CPO warranty. I realize it's more on the level of
the 3series than the 5series, but even so, in the back of my mind, I'm
wishing I'd bought one of the 325xi wagons I was considering. Unless the
3series gets as ugly as the new 5series, I'm likely to be back in a BMW
within a few years.

DS