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#1
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Coolant in the oil
My 1991 Plymouth Sundance RS 2.5 TBI w/ 198,000 miles on it had a blown
head gasket since this past summer. After it was comfirmed that it was blown, I continued to drive the car. At first, the only symptoms I had was bubbles/foaming in the radiator and overflow bottle. The car was also running hot at times. A few months later, the oil started to look a bit funny. For some reason the level had somehow got higher on the dipstick. The engine also skipped when I first started it up. Thinking that my oil was dirty (it was in there for over six months), I took it to the lube express at Wal-Mart to get the oil changed. While I'm in the store, the lube man pages me over the PA system and told me to come over there. Being the bearer of bad news, the person led me out to the lube bay and put the dipstick into the oil. The oil resembled the appearance of chocolate milk !!! There were also white splotches inside the valve cover. Due to liability reasons, they wouldn't change the oil. They told me that the head gasket was beyond gone and said that I needed to get it Fixed ASAP!!! (why it needed to be done ASAP possible is beyond me). Well, I took my car to the shop and got the gasket replaced and some head work done as well. Since I've had the car back, it seems to run fine as far as I know. What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it fixed. |
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#2
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well, you had non-oil over components that were supposed to get OIL only. A
slew of mechanical failures were imminent and undoubtedly there's additional wear on mechanical parts like rings, rod bearings, internal mechnisms etc.. I think it was a problem longer than you realize before they found it, but what's done is done. It may start burning oil sooner than later but I see its late in the engines life anyway. You should have the oil drained and checked periodically by letting it sit and separate (since coolant and oil dont mix) to be sure it's all gone out of the crankcase. I am sure these guys here will give you some horror stories and suggestions. |
#3
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#4
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#5
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> wrote in message oups.com... > My 1991 Plymouth Sundance RS 2.5 TBI w/ 198,000 miles on it had a blown > head gasket since this past summer. After it was comfirmed that it was > blown, I continued to drive the car. At first, the only symptoms I had > was bubbles/foaming in the radiator and overflow bottle. The car was > also running hot at times. A few months later, the oil started to look > a bit funny. For some reason the level had somehow got higher on the > dipstick. The engine also skipped when I first started it up. > > Thinking that my oil was dirty (it was in there for over six months), I > took it to the lube express at Wal-Mart to get the oil changed. While > I'm in the store, the lube man pages me over the PA system and told me > to come over there. Being the bearer of bad news, the person led me out > to the lube bay and put the dipstick into the oil. The oil resembled > the appearance of chocolate milk !!! There were also white splotches > inside the valve cover. Due to liability reasons, they wouldn't change > the oil. They told me that the head gasket was beyond gone and said > that I needed to get it Fixed ASAP!!! (why it needed to be done ASAP > possible is beyond me). That's mainly because you are so mind wrenchingly stupid you can't understand why a gasket leaking copious quantities of water into the engine oil is a BAD thing for engine life. > > Well, I took my car to the shop and got the gasket replaced and some > head work done as well. Since I've had the car back, it seems to run > fine as far as I know. > > What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I > think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it fixed. I find it hard to believe you really think you only drove it for 20-30 miles like that. Well, actually if I look back to my comment one paragraph up yes I can believe you think that. You apparently really do think that all the water that got into the oil happened instantaneously the very second before you decided to check the oil level even though you know the gasket had gone six months earlier. Or is too stupid to be believable and it's a troll and we've all been had? -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) |
#6
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I have a (hopefully) interesting experience with water in the oil over an
extended period. Many years ago a friend was tuning his Ford Escort with 1.6 CVH engine. He found some pistons from an Alfa engine that would fit and give the right CR but they were 84mm and the std bore is 80mm. 4mm is a hell of stretch for an overbore on a small 4 pot but the engines are cheap as chips over here and no great loss if it didn't work out. I did him a big valve head and cam and he already had a pair of 45 DCOe Webers knocking about looking for a good home. With an offset ground crank he squeezed the capacity up to about 1.8 litres. It certainly went like **** off a shovel. Never got onto a dyno because he's a dab hand at setting up DCOE's by feel but 130 to 140 bhp was a safe bet. Eventually it started using water though and the dreaded mayo appeared in large quantities. To keep mobile he took the rad cap off and drove it unpressurised (and fairly gently) which reduced the coolant loss to manageable proportions. He kept it going like this for a hell of a long time with the occasional sump drain to get rid of the water and putting something a bit more viscous in.. Over a year I think -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk), maybe even two, and a 50 mile round trip into work every day. When the car got pensioned off (it was only an old POS) he took the engine apart for curiosity's sake and I went round to have a look. One bore had sprouted a tiny hole where a glitch in the sand casting has been uncovered at rebore time. Or at least it must have come to within a couple of thou and broken through in service because it was fine to start with. The most interesting bit is what happened at assembly time. He's an experienced CNC engineer and generally all round handy at fixing cars but doesn't built engines day in day out like I do so he didn't quite hit the optimum build procedure. Instead of fitting the pistons and rods to the bores and then fitting the big end shells he did it the other way round and two shells got knocked out of position as he tapped the pistons in, got squished when he put the rod caps on and the crank locked up. He spotted it immediately and asked me to get another set of shells. The first set were OE spec Glacier ones but I couldn't get those again at short notice and we ended up with a cheap set of King shells made in Israel. So it finally went together with Glacier on two rods and King on the other two. When it came apart after maybe 20k miles on primarily water the two pairs of Glacier big end shells were toast and down to the steel backing and the two pairs of King shells looked almost brand new. Glacier use the normal lead/tin white metal and King use aluminium. From then on I started putting King in race engines and they've been good as gold. Everything else in the engine would have carried on running at a pinch. The piston skirts were a bit scuffed but the main bearings had just about survived and the cam was ok. The valves and valve seats were trashed but that was because there was no room for an air filter with the DCOEs and the seats had been grit blasted for 20k. It isn't the recommended way to run a car but no big money had gone into it and he knew exactly what he was doing in keeping it running on water. Made for an interesting tale for the grandkids anyway. |
#7
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote > Honestly, some people should just walk, take the subway or ride the bus. More sensibly, a lot of them buy new cars and take them to the dealer for service. They don't have a clue what's going on when they do that, but as long as they do that it doesn't matter. There are also times when it makes sense for a person to just drive a car until it breaks then push it off a cliff. Having nursed along a number of elderly K-cars and Omnirisons, I know. There comes a time when you're just throwing good money after bad. |
#8
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Dave Gower wrote:
> > Honestly, some people should just walk, take the subway or ride the bus. > More sensibly, a lot of them buy new cars and take them to the dealer > for service. They don't have a clue what's going on when they do that, > but as long as they do that it doesn't matter. Please change the Subject line when you change the topic. In this case, you've gone from talking about bad head gaskets ("Coolant in the oil") to talking about dealer service ("Vaseline in the pants"). |
#9
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Actually, I don't think I had much (if any) antifreeze in the oil. The
antifreeze had already leaked out completely through the tailpipe. At the time, I started to run the car on pure tap water. That's when, I assume, that the added water started to leak into the oil. So far, I don't think that car is burning oil. I don't see any blue smoke. When the mechanics had the head off, they did a valve job. Other than that, they told me that the engine is still solid. <<<<<well, you had non-oil over components that were supposed to get OIL only. A slew of mechanical failures were imminent and undoubtedly there's additional wear on mechanical parts like rings, rod bearings, internal mechnisms etc.. I think it was a problem longer than you realize before they found it, but what's done is done. It may start burning oil sooner than later but I see its late in the engines life anyway. You should have the oil drained and checked periodically by letting it sit and separate (since coolant and oil dont mix) to be sure it's all gone out of the crankcase. I am sure these guys here will give you some horror stories and suggestions.>>>>> |
#10
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> >My 1991 Plymouth Sundance RS 2.5 TBI w/ 198,000 miles on it had a
blown > >head gasket since this past summer. After it was comfirmed that it was > >blown, I continued to drive the car. > >Not wise. I couldn't afford to fix it at the time. At times, it was the only car I had available to drive. >> A few months later, the oil started to look a bit funny. > >A few *months* you drove it like this? Were you *trying* to kill your car? Actually, I was thinking about getting another car at the time, so I basically planned to drive it until it went out. I don't know exactly the length of time I drove it like this. During that period before the head gasket replacement, I was only using the car like once or twice a week. I drove my parents' cars much of the time, but I had to use my car when no other car was available. > >Thinking that my oil was dirty (it was in there for over six months) > >This kind of abuse and neglect is a large part of how certain kinds of >cars get a reputation for being "unreliable". Anyway, I've had my car for about 4 years. It's actually been a very dependable car. I go on a lot of long trips with it still. I really like the car overall. I usually keep up with maintenance and do a lot of work on the car myself. However, at the time of the head gasket failure, I was pretty sick at the time, had to go to the hospital in the summer, and couldn't really do anything about it. >> The oil resembled the appearance of chocolate milk !!! There were also >> white splotches inside the valve cover. Due to liability reasons, they >> wouldn't change the oil. They told me that the head gasket was beyond >> gone and said that I needed to get it Fixed ASAP!!! (why it needed to be >>done ASAP possible is beyond me). > >Because when the head gasket fails, lots of bad things happen. Coolant in >the oil. Oil in the coolant. Coolant in the combustion chamber (bye bye, >O2 sensor and catalyst!) Combustion heat where it's not supposed to be. >This is not an optional, "When I get around to it" fix. The head gasket failed at the water jacket behind #1 cylinder. The shop had told me that #1 cylinder was full of water when they disassembled the head. Fortunately, in my case, it appeared that pretty much all of the ethylene glycol antifreeze had already leaked out through the exhaust pipe. After this happened, I started to use pure tap water in the cooling system. Apparently, the water I was putting in started to leak into the oil. The mechanics told me that they didn't find glycol stuff in the oil; just water. That's probably one of the reasons why I got lucky and the engine is still running fine. Also, after my car was fixed, I had to replace the O2 sensor. The one I took out had white flakes all over it (possibly from the antifreeze coolant). >> Well, I took my car to the shop and got the gasket replaced and some >> head work done as well. Since I've had the car back, it seems to run >> fine as far as I know. > >...which appears not to be very far beyond the tip of your nose... When the head was off, the shop did a valve job and milled/shaved the head since it was warped. I was surprised that the head was not even cracked. Overall, the mechanics told me that the engine is still rock solid. >> What do you think happened when I drove with coolant in the oil? I >> think I drove it like that for about 20-30 miles before I got it fixed. > >You drove it like that for *months* before you got it fixed. Coolant is a >rotten engine lubricant when cold, even worse when baked and whipped with >hot oil. Your main bearings, cam bearings, big and small end rod bearings >will have suffered. > >But that's OK, 'cause you obviously don't care. I didn't really care that much at the time because I was going towards getting another car, but I had later changed my mind and decided to get this one fixed since my friend told me that it was cheaper in the long run to fix what you have. |
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