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#41
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, N8N wrote:
> > reaction to brake lights is quicker when they are combination > > brake/tail units. Your way (with P21 bulb) would also take away your > > sideward visibility of the taillamp/sidemarker, which is definitely a > > step backwards. > Any reason for that assertion? Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays the same and another red light comes on in a different location. The amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance between the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong. |
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#42
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Around 1/11/2005 3:53 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since > some lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge > don't hang out in Porsche-land. Heh. Since Judy hasn't replied to this thread yet, I'll beat him to it: You want to improve your vehicle's lighting?!?!!!11/? What kind of bloddthirsty loonball are you? -- ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) |
#43
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Around 1/11/2005 3:53 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> Already posted to the 944 group, but figured I'd repost it here since > some lighting-knowledgeable people read this group and to my knowledge > don't hang out in Porsche-land. Heh. Since Judy hasn't replied to this thread yet, I'll beat him to it: You want to improve your vehicle's lighting?!?!!!11/? What kind of bloddthirsty loonball are you? -- ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) |
#44
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, N8N wrote: > > >>>reaction to brake lights is quicker when they are combination >>>brake/tail units. Your way (with P21 bulb) would also take away your >>>sideward visibility of the taillamp/sidemarker, which is definitely a >>>step backwards. > > >>Any reason for that assertion? > > > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the taillamps > and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying attention to gets > 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays the same and another red > light comes on in a different location. The amount of difference is fairly > well related to the distance between the tail and brake functions, which > means Volvo has got it wrong. > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a deal it really is? anyway, in case anyone still cares about this anal retentive saga, I found: http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern... http://www.po944.de/images/po944_25.htm appears to have rear fog switch just to the left of the front fog switch, as I expected finally http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, not the outside segments as well... so probably buying euro bulbholders wouldn't do a thing for me anyway... (yeah, insomnia makes you do weird things I guess. Hoodathunk there'd be so many pics of 944s online but so few of Euro models with the lights on?) nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#45
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, N8N wrote: > > >>>reaction to brake lights is quicker when they are combination >>>brake/tail units. Your way (with P21 bulb) would also take away your >>>sideward visibility of the taillamp/sidemarker, which is definitely a >>>step backwards. > > >>Any reason for that assertion? > > > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the taillamps > and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying attention to gets > 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays the same and another red > light comes on in a different location. The amount of difference is fairly > well related to the distance between the tail and brake functions, which > means Volvo has got it wrong. > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a deal it really is? anyway, in case anyone still cares about this anal retentive saga, I found: http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern... http://www.po944.de/images/po944_25.htm appears to have rear fog switch just to the left of the front fog switch, as I expected finally http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, not the outside segments as well... so probably buying euro bulbholders wouldn't do a thing for me anyway... (yeah, insomnia makes you do weird things I guess. Hoodathunk there'd be so many pics of 944s online but so few of Euro models with the lights on?) nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#46
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
> > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the > > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying > > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays > > the same and another red light comes on in a different location. The > > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance between > > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong. > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a > deal it really is? Not huge, but present and significant. > http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm > shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern... > http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html > sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link above, looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical line running downward from the hatch lock: http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet convinced that it is. I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind the retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a few of them myself, even. DS |
#47
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On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote:
> > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the > > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying > > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays > > the same and another red light comes on in a different location. The > > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance between > > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong. > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a > deal it really is? Not huge, but present and significant. > http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm > shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern... > http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html > sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link above, looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical line running downward from the hatch lock: http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet convinced that it is. I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind the retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a few of them myself, even. DS |
#48
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Daniel J. Stern wrote: > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote: > > > > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the > > > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying > > > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays > > > the same and another red light comes on in a different location. The > > > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance between > > > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong. > > > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a > > deal it really is? > > Not huge, but present and significant. > > > http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm > > shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern... > > http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html > > sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, > > Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link above, > looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same > photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical line > running downward from the hatch lock: > > http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg > > Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp > visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet convinced > that it is. > > I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind the > retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a few > of them myself, even. > > DS I dunno, it looks like the owner of that site took all the pics with the lights on, note that in the front pics the fog lights are on as well. I've seen the taillights both ways (on various Euro cars) and I really don't know which is correct at this point. Would sure like some confirmation, but that was the most "definitive" pic I could find after an image search for all the 944 images I could find... nate |
#49
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Daniel J. Stern wrote: > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Nate Nagel wrote: > > > > Eyetracker research shows that observers' eyes "prime" on the > > > taillamps and react faster when a taillamp they're already paying > > > attention to gets 5x brighter, than they do when the taillamp stays > > > the same and another red light comes on in a different location. The > > > amount of difference is fairly well related to the distance between > > > the tail and brake functions, which means Volvo has got it wrong. > > > just seems counterintuitive to me... would like to know how big of a > > deal it really is? > > Not huge, but present and significant. > > > http://www.po944.de/images/po944_37.htm > > shows both brake and taillights on, confirming pattern... > > http://jimweb.free.fr/photos944.html > > sure looks like the reflectors only are lit for parking lights, > > Not so clear-cut from where I sit. This photo, from your 2nd link above, > looks like the unlit retroreflectors are being hit with the same > photoflash that's visible as white spot reflections in a vertical line > running downward from the hatch lock: > > http://jimweb.free.fr/rear.jpg > > Mm. Don't like what this does to your horizontal angles of taillamp > visibility, if your interpretation is correct, but I'm not yet convinced > that it is. > > I can think of several ECE-spec vehicles that have a tail bulb behind the > retroreflector *and* a tail/brake bulb outboard of that. I've owned a few > of them myself, even. > > DS I dunno, it looks like the owner of that site took all the pics with the lights on, note that in the front pics the fog lights are on as well. I've seen the taillights both ways (on various Euro cars) and I really don't know which is correct at this point. Would sure like some confirmation, but that was the most "definitive" pic I could find after an image search for all the 944 images I could find... nate |
#50
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N8N wrote:
> > I dunno, it looks like the owner of that site took all the pics with > the lights on, note that in the front pics the fog lights are on as > well. Are you sure they're fog lights? Looks like high beams to me. I know on my BMW I can activate the high beams without the lights on (otherwise the flash to pass feature wouldn't work). > I've seen the taillights both ways (on various Euro cars) and I > really don't know which is correct at this point. Would sure like some > confirmation, but that was the most "definitive" pic I could find after > an image search for all the 944 images I could find... Why don't you contact the owner, I'm sure he speaks some English... :-) BTW, you have tried searching for "porsche 944 rear" (or similar) on Google's image search, right? > > nate > Ulf |
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