Up-Rated Towing Suspension

We have just bought a 24' Thor Wanderer Toy Hauler.

I would like to instal stiffer rear suspension, on our 2004 Expedition XLT.

Any recomendations and installers to use or avoid.

Ride safe

Barry
Sunny Ocala Florida

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:03:08 GMT, "limeybiker" > wrote:

>We have just bought a 24' Thor Wanderer Toy Hauler.
>
>I would like to instal stiffer rear suspension, on our 2004 Expedition XLT.
>
>Any recomendations and installers to use or avoid.
>
>Ride safe
>
>Barry
>Sunny Ocala Florida
>
>
I can't find any info on this unit at all. Is it a current model?
What's it's gross weight? Why do you need a "stiffer" rear suspension?
Does "stiffer" mean extra weight carrying capacity? If it does, are
you sure you aren't going over the towing capacities of the
Expedition?

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

limeybiker wrote:
> We have just bought a 24' Thor Wanderer Toy Hauler.
>
> I would like to instal stiffer rear suspension, on our 2004 Expedition XLT.
>
> Any recomendations and installers to use or avoid.
>
> Ride safe
>
> Barry
> Sunny Ocala Florida
>
>
>
Your cleanest and most effective solution would be an air bag
suspension, like these:

http://www.performancesuspension.com/TruckAirSuspen.htm
http://www.airliftcompany.com/ridecontrol.htm
http://www.ultimateautoaccessories.c...Suspension.htm
http://www.strutmasters.com/ford/expedition.htm

You can have a stock ride when you need it then "pump" up the stiffness
when required.

Do you have a weight-distributing hitch? I wouldn't even consider bags
until I had one. What is the tongue weight of yourf toy hauler, loaded
and ready for the road?

Bill
================

351CJ wrote:

> limeybiker wrote:
>
>> We have just bought a 24' Thor Wanderer Toy Hauler.
>>
>> I would like to instal stiffer rear suspension, on our 2004 Expedition
>> XLT.

> Your cleanest and most effective solution would be an air bag
> suspension, like these:

The unit we have bought is exactly the same as this one, dry weight: 5090
lbs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

We have added a 4KVA Generac propane fueled generator, which is located on
the port side at the front, so there is an extra 300lbs at the nose.

We have added a weight distribution hitch

http://www.hitchesonline.com/WD/wd_main.htm

The front wheels still seem a little light, we will be hauling an 800lb
Honda Valkyrie, so with that weight towards the rear the nose weight will
decrease, though I have yet to tow it, other than bringing the RV home.


"limeybiker" > wrote in message
...
> We have just bought a 24' Thor Wanderer Toy Hauler.
>
> I would like to instal stiffer rear suspension, on our 2004 Expedition
> XLT.
>
> Any recomendations and installers to use or avoid.
>
> Ride safe
>
> Barry
> Sunny Ocala Florida
>
>
>

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:28:55 GMT, "limeybiker" > wrote:

>The unit we have bought is exactly the same as this one, dry weight: 5090
>lbs
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT
>
>We have added a 4KVA Generac propane fueled generator, which is located on
>the port side at the front, so there is an extra 300lbs at the nose.
>
>We have added a weight distribution hitch
>
>http://www.hitchesonline.com/WD/wd_main.htm
>
>The front wheels still seem a little light, we will be hauling an 800lb
>Honda Valkyrie, so with that weight towards the rear the nose weight will
>decrease, though I have yet to tow it, other than bringing the RV home.

Take it to a place that has public scales, and weight he trailer
loaded, then hook it up and weigh the rear and front wheels of the
truck seperately (with it loaded), then weigh just the tongue of the
trailer.
Without these figures, you're only guessing. There is no way you can
accurately tell what you need to do without knowing what the truck and
trailer and combination actually weigh.
And we still don't know what you mean by "stiffer".
Adding extra springs to the rear will *not* add to the GCWR.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

limeybiker wrote:

> The front wheels still seem a little light, we will be hauling an 800lb
> Honda Valkyrie, so with that weight towards the rear the nose weight will
> decrease, though I have yet to tow it, other than bringing the RV home.

Bingo. If the front wheels feel light, air bags or shocks will NOT
help. Only a weight-distributing hitch will put the weight back where
it belongs. And rear-weighting the trailer, in an effort to reduce the
tongue weight, is an invitation to disaster in the form of
uncontrollable trailer sway. You MUST have at least 10% (and 12-14% is
better) of the trailer weight on the tongue. Then you MUST have a WD
hitch, properly adjusted so that it re-levels the tow vehicle.

"Properly adjusted" means this.
1. Without the trailer, measure the height of the front and rear
bumpers above ground.
2. With the trailer loaded and ready for the road, drop the trailer
tongue onto the hitch ball. Remeasure the front and rear bumper height.
You will find that the rear end has squatted and the front end has
risen (unweighted). This front-end unweighting is DANGEROUS.
3. Snap up the spring bars, and measure the front and rear heights
again. If you chose the correct link on the springbar chains, the front
and rear of the tow vehicle will both squat, and will squat by the same
amount from their original height in step 1. If they don't squat
equally, then choose a different link in the springbar chains. Keep
trying different links until you find the one that produces equal squat.

HTH

Bill

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 16:13:02 -0700, Bill Jeffrey
> wrote:

>limeybiker wrote:
>
>> The front wheels still seem a little light, we will be hauling an 800lb
>> Honda Valkyrie, so with that weight towards the rear the nose weight will
>> decrease, though I have yet to tow it, other than bringing the RV home.
>
>Bingo. If the front wheels feel light, air bags or shocks will NOT
>help. Only a weight-distributing hitch will put the weight back where
>it belongs. And rear-weighting the trailer, in an effort to reduce the
>tongue weight, is an invitation to disaster in the form of
>uncontrollable trailer sway. You MUST have at least 10% (and 12-14% is
>better) of the trailer weight on the tongue. Then you MUST have a WD
>hitch, properly adjusted so that it re-levels the tow vehicle.
>
>"Properly adjusted" means this.
>1. Without the trailer, measure the height of the front and rear
>bumpers above ground.
>2. With the trailer loaded and ready for the road, drop the trailer
>tongue onto the hitch ball. Remeasure the front and rear bumper height.
> You will find that the rear end has squatted and the front end has
>risen (unweighted). This front-end unweighting is DANGEROUS.
>3. Snap up the spring bars, and measure the front and rear heights
>again. If you chose the correct link on the springbar chains, the front
>and rear of the tow vehicle will both squat, and will squat by the same
>amount from their original height in step 1. If they don't squat
>equally, then choose a different link in the springbar chains. Keep
>trying different links until you find the one that produces equal squat.
>
>HTH
>
>Bill

He still hasn't weighed the trailer yet.
It's very possible with the added stuff, the trailer is overweight for
the truck. A weight distributing hitch will not correct for this.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

Big Bill wrote:

> Bill Jeffrey wrote:
>
>>limeybiker wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The front wheels still seem a little light, we will be hauling an 800lb
>>>Honda Valkyrie, so with that weight towards the rear the nose weight will
>>>decrease, though I have yet to tow it, other than bringing the RV home.
>>
>>Bingo. If the front wheels feel light, air bags or shocks will NOT
>>help. Only a weight-distributing hitch will put the weight back where
>>it belongs. And rear-weighting the trailer, in an effort to reduce the
>>tongue weight, is an invitation to disaster in the form of
>>uncontrollable trailer sway. You MUST have at least 10% (and 12-14% is
>>better) of the trailer weight on the tongue. Then you MUST have a WD
>>hitch, properly adjusted so that it re-levels the tow vehicle.
>>
>>"Properly adjusted" means this.
>>1. Without the trailer, measure the height of the front and rear
>>bumpers above ground.
>>2. With the trailer loaded and ready for the road, drop the trailer
>>tongue onto the hitch ball. Remeasure the front and rear bumper height.
>> You will find that the rear end has squatted and the front end has
>>risen (unweighted). This front-end unweighting is DANGEROUS.
>>3. Snap up the spring bars, and measure the front and rear heights
>>again. If you chose the correct link on the springbar chains, the front
>>and rear of the tow vehicle will both squat, and will squat by the same
>>amount from their original height in step 1. If they don't squat
>>equally, then choose a different link in the springbar chains. Keep
>>trying different links until you find the one that produces equal squat.
>>
>>HTH
>>
>>Bill
>
>
> He still hasn't weighed the trailer yet.
> It's very possible with the added stuff, the trailer is overweight for
> the truck. A weight distributing hitch will not correct for this.

You are absolutely correct, Big Bill. If the trailer weighs 5000 pounds
empty and unoptioned, and he adds all his stuff, and 100 gallons (850
pounds) of water, and food and clothes and pots and pans and a TV and a
microwave and ..., and then adds tools for the bike, and then adds an
800-pound bike - he is probably headed for 7500-8000 pounds loaded and
ready to roll. So a first question whether his vehicle is ready for
that kind of load. If not, then he is done before he starts. However,
IF he can convince himself that his particular Expedition, equipped as
his is equipped (factory tow package, for example?) can handle the load,
then he MUST have a WD hitch, he MUST adjust it properly, and he MUST
avoid all the spurious advice to cram some air bags into the rear
suspension to level it.

Bill

Bill Jeffrey wrote:
> Big Bill wrote:
>
>> Bill Jeffrey wrote:
>>
>>> limeybiker wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The front wheels still seem a little light, we will be hauling an
>>>> 800lb Honda Valkyrie, so with that weight towards the rear the nose
>>>> weight will decrease, though I have yet to tow it, other than
>>>> bringing the RV home.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bingo. If the front wheels feel light, air bags or shocks will NOT
>>> help. Only a weight-distributing hitch will put the weight back
>>> where it belongs. And rear-weighting the trailer, in an effort to
>>> reduce the tongue weight, is an invitation to disaster in the form of
>>> uncontrollable trailer sway. You MUST have at least 10% (and 12-14%
>>> is better) of the trailer weight on the tongue. Then you MUST have a
>>> WD hitch, properly adjusted so that it re-levels the tow vehicle.
>>>
>>> "Properly adjusted" means this.
>>> 1. Without the trailer, measure the height of the front and rear
>>> bumpers above ground.
>>> 2. With the trailer loaded and ready for the road, drop the trailer
>>> tongue onto the hitch ball. Remeasure the front and rear bumper
>>> height. You will find that the rear end has squatted and the front
>>> end has risen (unweighted). This front-end unweighting is DANGEROUS.
>>> 3. Snap up the spring bars, and measure the front and rear heights
>>> again. If you chose the correct link on the springbar chains, the
>>> front and rear of the tow vehicle will both squat, and will squat by
>>> the same amount from their original height in step 1. If they don't
>>> squat equally, then choose a different link in the springbar chains.
>>> Keep trying different links until you find the one that produces
>>> equal squat.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>> He still hasn't weighed the trailer yet.
>> It's very possible with the added stuff, the trailer is overweight for
>> the truck. A weight distributing hitch will not correct for this.
>
>
> You are absolutely correct, Big Bill. If the trailer weighs 5000 pounds
> empty and unoptioned, and he adds all his stuff, and 100 gallons (850
> pounds) of water, and food and clothes and pots and pans and a TV and a
> microwave and ..., and then adds tools for the bike, and then adds an
> 800-pound bike - he is probably headed for 7500-8000 pounds loaded and
> ready to roll. So a first question whether his vehicle is ready for
> that kind of load. If not, then he is done before he starts. However,
> IF he can convince himself that his particular Expedition, equipped as
> his is equipped (factory tow package, for example?) can handle the load,
> then he MUST have a WD hitch, he MUST adjust it properly, and he MUST
> avoid all the spurious advice to cram some air bags into the rear
> suspension to level it.
>
> Bill
>
Damn!
Obviously you have never used airbags!

I have installed them on two 3/4 ton 4x4 trucks, a '88 Ford Gas & a '94
Dodge diesel, I work the hell out of my Trucks, carry very heavy loads
of firewood in the bed, tow from 6000-14000 pound trailers with them. I
have loaded and driven both trucks before and after the air bag
installations, the difference was night and day better with the air
bags. It's kinda like sex, until you've tried it you have no ****ing
clue what it's all about.