Speeding Ticket While Doing Average Speed

Hi Guys,

On Wednesday I got a speeding ticket for doing 68mph on the San
Francisco/Oakland Bay bridge at 9:14pm.

The speed limit for the Bay Bridge is 50mph and so techinically I was
doing 18mph over the limit - which sounds like a lot, except that I was
doing the average speed for the traffic and wasn't overtaking anything
other than trucks. In fact, to convince myself that I wasn't
halucinating about this, I drove back over the bridge at the same time
another day and attempted to pace myself with the traffic - result -
68mph. There is a reason for this, the Bay Bridge is fed by I-80, on
which the speed limit is 65 - and pretty much nobody slows down.

As another experiment, I tried driving across the Bay Bridge at exactly
50mph (using cruize control), and found that it was absolutely
terrifying. People were buzzing past me on all sides at 65-80mph and it
was impossible to safely change lanes. In the end I had to bring my
speed up to 70mph in order to get to the exit lane.

After I was pulled over, I asked the cop why I was pulled over despite
the fact I was going the same speed as the traffic, and he said that it
was because I had my interior light on, and he thought I might be
reading. I wasn't reading anything in the car - the light was on
because I had checked the car hire agreement before I started driving
to see when I needed to return the car and had forgotten to turn it
off.

Do people think I have a case in getting this overturned? While I was
undoubtedly going over the speed limit, it would have been extremely
dangerous to drive slower as I would not have been able to safely
change lanes.
Is it really impossible to drive across the Bay Bridge safely without
risking being given a ticket at random?

I have never previously received a ticket for any form of traffic
violation in 10 years of driving. I am not a dangerous driver and I do
not drive at unsafe speeds.


What do people think? Has this happened to anyone else?

-Rob

wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> On Wednesday I got a speeding ticket for doing 68mph on the San
> Francisco/Oakland Bay bridge at 9:14pm.
>
> The speed limit for the Bay Bridge is 50mph and so techinically I was
> doing 18mph over the limit - which sounds like a lot, except that I was
> doing the average speed for the traffic and wasn't overtaking anything
> other than trucks. In fact, to convince myself that I wasn't
> halucinating about this, I drove back over the bridge at the same time
> another day and attempted to pace myself with the traffic - result -
> 68mph. There is a reason for this, the Bay Bridge is fed by I-80, on
> which the speed limit is 65 - and pretty much nobody slows down.
>
> As another experiment, I tried driving across the Bay Bridge at exactly
> 50mph (using cruize control), and found that it was absolutely
> terrifying. People were buzzing past me on all sides at 65-80mph and it
> was impossible to safely change lanes. In the end I had to bring my
> speed up to 70mph in order to get to the exit lane.
>
> After I was pulled over, I asked the cop why I was pulled over despite
> the fact I was going the same speed as the traffic, and he said that it
> was because I had my interior light on, and he thought I might be
> reading. I wasn't reading anything in the car - the light was on
> because I had checked the car hire agreement before I started driving
> to see when I needed to return the car and had forgotten to turn it
> off.
>
> Do people think I have a case in getting this overturned? While I was
> undoubtedly going over the speed limit, it would have been extremely
> dangerous to drive slower as I would not have been able to safely
> change lanes.
> Is it really impossible to drive across the Bay Bridge safely without
> risking being given a ticket at random?
>
> I have never previously received a ticket for any form of traffic
> violation in 10 years of driving. I am not a dangerous driver and I do
> not drive at unsafe speeds.
>
>
> What do people think? Has this happened to anyone else?
>
> -Rob

In my 300+ times of driving across the Bay Bridge during the daylight
hours, speeds seem to range between 50 and 70 MPH. 80 MPH; well that
I've only seen a few times. Seriously.

Quite often, 60 MPH is an acceptable speed in the #2 lane (2nd to
left). Nobody will be driving faster, either in front, or behind me.

What you *could* do is contact CalTrans to get a speed data inquiry on
the Bay Bridge; if CalTrans agrees with you that the 85th percentile
speed is around 68 MPH on the bridge, then you can present this data to
the judge. I highly doubt 68 MPH is the average speed on the bridge,
considering my hundreds of experiences in driving across that thing. I
would say about 57 MPH is more like the average, by the time you factor
in trucks, LLB's, and simply the amount of volume of traffic.

Now, as far as the 50 MPH limit is concerned; well I think it's
bull****. At least 55 MPH would be a bit more reasonable, but it is
what it is, and so, 60 MPH is the fastest I drive. Stick to the right
3 lanes, and you'll have no problems.

Ladies and Gentlemen (and I use those words loosely), said in
rec.autos.driving:
> After I was pulled over, I asked the cop why I was pulled over despite
> the fact I was going the same speed as the traffic, and he said that it
> was because I had my interior light on, and he thought I might be
> reading. I wasn't reading anything in the car - the light was on
> because I had checked the car hire agreement before I started driving
> to see when I needed to return the car and had forgotten to turn it
> off.

While I'm not in the cop's head, I can't help but think that he
recognised that what you were driving was a rental and that there was a
good chance that you were a tourist who will just pay up to the
protection racket and not object.

> Do people think I have a case in getting this overturned? While I was
> undoubtedly going over the speed limit, it would have been extremely
> dangerous to drive slower as I would not have been able to safely
> change lanes.

Dunno. If you are going to fight it, I'd suggest consulting with a
lawyer. Don't go against the revenue machine alone.

--
Sincerely,

The New World Order.

CAHighway99 wrote:

[snip]

> In my 300+ times of driving across the Bay Bridge during the daylight
> hours, speeds seem to range between 50 and 70 MPH. 80 MPH; well that
> I've only seen a few times. Seriously.

I agree with you. During "the daylight hours" when there is a fair
amount of congestion, people don't go all that fast. But I got this
ticket at 9:14PM (not AM), when there was essentially no congestion and
people go a LOT faster. I drove the same route at the same time a
couple more times to verify that this is indeed the average speed.

I challenge anybody to take an average speed measurement of the Bay
Bridge late at night and come up with a speed less than 65.

> Quite often, 60 MPH is an acceptable speed in the #2 lane (2nd to
> left). Nobody will be driving faster, either in front, or behind me.

I was in the right hand lane (getting ready to turn off at the first
exit) and wasn't overtaking people.
In fact, I think this was part of where I went wrong. I had to
accellerate in order to safely merge into the traffic in that lane
(from being behind a truck who was going below average speed) and it
was probably the cop that I merged in front of.

> What you *could* do is contact CalTrans to get a speed data inquiry on
> the Bay Bridge; if CalTrans agrees with you that the 85th percentile
> speed is around 68 MPH on the bridge, then you can present this data to
> the judge. I highly doubt 68 MPH is the average speed on the bridge,
> considering my hundreds of experiences in driving across that thing. I
> would say about 57 MPH is more like the average, by the time you factor
> in trucks, LLB's, and simply the amount of volume of traffic.

That's useful advice. I'll see if I can get that data off Caltrans.
I'm sure that the average speed for the bay bridge over the course of
the day is much lower - it comes to a standstill during commute hours.
Do you know if they give speed measurements for specific times of day?

> Now, as far as the 50 MPH limit is concerned; well I think it's
> bull****. At least 55 MPH would be a bit more reasonable, but it is
> what it is, and so, 60 MPH is the fastest I drive. Stick to the right
> 3 lanes, and you'll have no problems.

Personally I think that 50mph is a good limit and I wish people would
observe it. I have a motorbike that I would like to be able to ride
across the Bay Bridge but don't because people drive too fast for it to
be safe.

If sticking to the right 3 lanes and not overtaking people made one
safe then I wouldn't have got the ticket in the first place.

-Rob

wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> On Wednesday I got a speeding ticket for doing 68mph on the San
> Francisco/Oakland Bay bridge at 9:14pm.
>
> The speed limit for the Bay Bridge is 50mph and so techinically I was
> doing 18mph over the limit - which sounds like a lot, except that I was
> doing the average speed for the traffic and wasn't overtaking anything
> other than trucks. In fact, to convince myself that I wasn't
> halucinating about this, I drove back over the bridge at the same time
> another day and attempted to pace myself with the traffic - result -
> 68mph. There is a reason for this, the Bay Bridge is fed by I-80, on
> which the speed limit is 65 - and pretty much nobody slows down.
>
> As another experiment, I tried driving across the Bay Bridge at exactly
> 50mph (using cruize control), and found that it was absolutely
> terrifying. People were buzzing past me on all sides at 65-80mph and it
> was impossible to safely change lanes. In the end I had to bring my
> speed up to 70mph in order to get to the exit lane.
>
> After I was pulled over, I asked the cop why I was pulled over despite
> the fact I was going the same speed as the traffic, and he said that it
> was because I had my interior light on, and he thought I might be
> reading. I wasn't reading anything in the car - the light was on
> because I had checked the car hire agreement before I started driving
> to see when I needed to return the car and had forgotten to turn it
> off.
>
> Do people think I have a case in getting this overturned? While I was
> undoubtedly going over the speed limit, it would have been extremely
> dangerous to drive slower as I would not have been able to safely
> change lanes.
> Is it really impossible to drive across the Bay Bridge safely without
> risking being given a ticket at random?
>
> I have never previously received a ticket for any form of traffic
> violation in 10 years of driving. I am not a dangerous driver and I do
> not drive at unsafe speeds.
>
>
> What do people think? Has this happened to anyone else?
>
> -Rob

HAHAHA. Oh stop with that nonsense about how dangerous it is to drive
the speed limit or less. I've done it all my life, you lying whore.
And BTW - if we had stiff penalties for speeding, the speeding would
stop and everyone would be doing the same speed.

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
> wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> On Wednesday I got a speeding ticket for doing 68mph on the San
>> Francisco/Oakland Bay bridge at 9:14pm.
>>
>> The speed limit for the Bay Bridge is 50mph and so techinically I was
>> doing 18mph over the limit - which sounds like a lot, except that I
>> was doing the average speed for the traffic and wasn't overtaking
>> anything other than trucks. In fact, to convince myself that I wasn't
>> halucinating about this, I drove back over the bridge at the same
>> time another day and attempted to pace myself with the traffic -
>> result - 68mph. There is a reason for this, the Bay Bridge is fed by
>> I-80, on which the speed limit is 65 - and pretty much nobody slows
>> down.
>>
>> As another experiment, I tried driving across the Bay Bridge at
>> exactly 50mph (using cruize control), and found that it was
>> absolutely terrifying. People were buzzing past me on all sides at
>> 65-80mph and it was impossible to safely change lanes. In the end I
>> had to bring my speed up to 70mph in order to get to the exit lane.
>>
>> After I was pulled over, I asked the cop why I was pulled over
>> despite the fact I was going the same speed as the traffic, and he
>> said that it was because I had my interior light on, and he thought
>> I might be reading. I wasn't reading anything in the car - the light
>> was on because I had checked the car hire agreement before I started
>> driving to see when I needed to return the car and had forgotten to
>> turn it off.
>>
>> Do people think I have a case in getting this overturned? While I was
>> undoubtedly going over the speed limit, it would have been extremely
>> dangerous to drive slower as I would not have been able to safely
>> change lanes.
>> Is it really impossible to drive across the Bay Bridge safely without
>> risking being given a ticket at random?
>>
>> I have never previously received a ticket for any form of traffic
>> violation in 10 years of driving. I am not a dangerous driver and I
>> do not drive at unsafe speeds.
>>
>>
>> What do people think? Has this happened to anyone else?
>>
>> -Rob
>
> HAHAHA. Oh stop with that nonsense about how dangerous it is to drive
> the speed limit or less. I've done it all my life, you lying whore.
> And BTW - if we had stiff penalties for speeding, the speeding would
> stop and everyone would be doing the same speed.

Or of course they could just RAISE the posted speed limits to more
accurately reflect
what the super-majority of the public feels is safe and reasonable, viz a
viz their
actual speeds.

_ Gui LaDouche _ wrote:
> Or of course they could just RAISE the posted speed limits to more
> accurately reflect
> what the super-majority of the public feels is safe and reasonable, viz a
> viz their
> actual speeds.

Your statement is a bit misleading. I think what you really meant to
say was what the majority of "motorists" feel.

If you were to attend a local town meeting you may be a bit surprised
at what the majority seeks--people at such meetings routinely demand
LOWER speed limits, not higher.


Further, the "majority of the public" is not qualified to determine a
safe speed limit for two reasons:

1) The issues of safety and risk cannot be determined by casual
observation, such as by a motorist making a trip down a highway. The
individual motorist has no idea of the collective experience of all
motorists, adjacent property owners, and pedestrians along the highway
with accidents, nor the potential risk factors. Frankly, such
motorists have a selfish motive and can't be objective. We have
professional engineers to make such determinations. There are many
examples of high speed roads that were death traps. Motorists clearly
had no idea of the risks and sped away to kill and be killed.


2) The individual motorist is not aware of the legitimate needs of
other people. For instance, higher speeds create more noise and make
it harder for pedestrians and cross traffic.

_ Gui LaDouche _ wrote:

>
> Or of course they could just RAISE the posted speed limits to more
> accurately reflect
> what the super-majority of the public feels is safe and reasonable, viz a
> viz their
> actual speeds.

There is no super-majority on this issue. No matter what the speed
limit is, millions of psychos like you will exceed it as long as you
know you will get off with just a fine.

Scott en Aztlán wrote:
> said in rec.autos.driving:
>
> >Do people think I have a case in getting this overturned?
>
> What we need in California is a law REQUIRING speed limits to be set
> according to the 85th percentile speed from a VALID speed survey. Then
> when people get rapacious tickets like these they could challenge them
> based on an illegally-set speed limit.

HAHAHA. Here we go again with the board psycho demanding laws where
the PLAN is for 15% of the public to break the law. Why do you love
criminals so much?? You are truly nuts.

wrote: <brevity snip>
> Hi Guys,
>
> On Wednesday I got a speeding ticket for doing 68mph on the San
> Francisco/Oakland Bay bridge at 9:14pm.
>
> The speed limit for the Bay Bridge is 50mph and so techinically I was
> doing 18mph over the limit - which sounds like a lot, except that I was
> doing the average speed for the traffic and wasn't overtaking anything
> other than trucks. In fact, to convince myself that I wasn't
> halucinating about this, I drove back over the bridge at the same time
> another day and attempted to pace myself with the traffic - result -
> 68mph. There is a reason for this, the Bay Bridge is fed by I-80, on
> which the speed limit is 65 - and pretty much nobody slows down.

All very interesting but it doesn't negate the fact that you were going
18 over.

>
> Do people think I have a case in getting this overturned?

No.

Based on what? That other drivers were in violation of the speed limit
too?! Does the excuse, "I ran the stop light because the driver to my
front ran it" sound as if the reply from a judge might be, "Case
dismissed!"?

> While I was
> undoubtedly going over the speed limit, it would have been extremely
> dangerous to drive slower as I would not have been able to safely
> change lanes.

Illogical argument; there's no legal requirement to change lanes.
Plenty of people drive the SL and below and change lanes without
incident. Here in rad they're referred to as "sloths" and supply seems
to be infinite.

> Is it really impossible to drive across the Bay Bridge safely without
> risking being given a ticket at random?

No. But the chances are better if you're operating at less than 15
over.

>
> I am not a dangerous driver and I do
> not drive at unsafe speeds.

That's your opinion... My opinion is, there's no such thing as a
"safe" velocity.

>
> Has this happened to anyone else?
>

Happened to my cousin while I was riding with him. He argued with the
cop that everyone else was going about the same amount over the limit,
and they were. The cop's reply- "Yeah, but I caught you".

If it were me, I'd pay the fine and slow down in the future.

I'm unaware of any violation of law other than speeding where the perp
thinks a good excuse is "Somebody else was doing it too".
-----

- gpsman