auto tune up

In article >,
Alex Rodriguez > wrote:

> In article >, says...
>
> >Disk brakes were similar. Actually less work to check and replace pads
> >(and disks) than on most older drum brakes. But 'cause you may have
> >paid extra for option of disk brakes, shops charged a premium to service
> >them.
>
> I never understood this.

Did you perform many brake jobs in the late 60 or early 70s?

> I can change a disc brake in less than half the
> time
> of a drum brake, yet the price is ths same, or higher, as getting drum brakes
> serviced.

Pretty much depends on the vehicle, no?

Typical FWD disc brake job;
Remove tire/wheel
Remove 1 or 2 caliper bolts
Rotor slides off

Typical RWD disc brake job;
Remove tire/wheel
Remove 1 or 2 caliper bolts
Remove bearing dust cap
Remove cotter pin
Remove axle nut
Remove rotor
Remove inner bearing
Pack inner and outer bearing

Typical drum brake job;
Remove tire/wheel
Remove brake drum
Remove return springs
Remove hold downs

Something tells me what you're describing is a simple pad swap...

aarcuda69062 wrote:

> I'm 99% certain that that vehicle uses Iridium spark plugs as
> most late model Toyotas do.

98 Sienna uses Platinum plugs, approx. $6 - $10 ea. Iridium plug use
on Siennas started with the VVT-i version 1MZ-FE starting in 2001.

> > >Premium Belden wires list for around $85.00, so not totally out
> > >of line. OEM Toyota wires are probably a bit higher.

a '98 Sienna more likely would need a coil pack than a wire, assuming
the van is between 60k and 120k miles, if there really was a
drivability issue. When one of these wires fail, it's pretty much an
all-at-once hard misfire under load. I would suggest replacing the set
(it is a set of three wires BTW) if one of them began causing a
problem, or if the mileage was really high. Coil packs are about
$90ish each and include the spark plug boot (which is what usually
shorts to the plug tube and causes the eventual problem).

> > >Depends on the labor time, which I don't have at hand right now.
> > >Some mini vans are a bitch for access.
> > >If the intake manifold lays over the spark plugs and wires, the
> > >labor isn't surprising.

I get 2.0 hours at work (dealer). I take off the cowl which adds labor
cost over a similar plug removal job in a 1MZ-FE equipped car. As with
most things, do a couple and it's cake.

> As a rule, Toyota doesn't usually put their fuel filters in
> easily accessible places. My guess (never done a Sienna) is it's
> down low on the firewall in the engine compartment and not very
> accessible.

Not too bad to get at, maybe .5 to 1.0 labor depending on the shop.

Finally, I think the OP got his PCV and F/F prices switched.

Toyota MDT in MO

Main Entry: 2gouge
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): gouged; goug·ing
1 : to scoop out with or as if with a gouge
2 a : to force out (an eye) with the thumb b : to thrust the thumb into the
eye of
3 : to subject to extortion or undue exaction : OVERCHARGE

"Al" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I went to a auto-repair shop here in Destin, FL. I have a 1998 Toyota
> Senna minivan - V6.
> I had a tune-up done that consisted of new spark plugs ($108 parts),
> wires ($98 parts) + labor ($249).
> Also, PCV ($40 part), fuel filter ($12 part) + labor ($91)
> The total before tax was $644.76.

Well, now you have heard both sides of the justification controversy.

You made the mistake for not talking to the mechanic or shop foreman and
getting an estimate.

If you hadn't liked the price, you could have walked away. You can always
get a second opinion or estimate.

I still think this was excessive, but it is 'lærepenger', or 'tuition'. You
have
learned a lesson. Maybe next time you will have a better feel for how to
handle it.

In article
.com>,
"Comboverfish" > wrote:

> aarcuda69062 wrote:
>
> > I'm 99% certain that that vehicle uses Iridium spark plugs as
> > most late model Toyotas do.
>
> 98 Sienna uses Platinum plugs, approx. $6 - $10 ea. Iridium plug use
> on Siennas started with the VVT-i version 1MZ-FE starting in 2001.

Actually, NAPA shows the Iridium plugs at $18.00 ea. and the
Platinums at $27.00 ea. list price of course...

> > > >Premium Belden wires list for around $85.00, so not totally out
> > > >of line. OEM Toyota wires are probably a bit higher.
>
> a '98 Sienna more likely would need a coil pack than a wire, assuming
> the van is between 60k and 120k miles, if there really was a
> drivability issue. When one of these wires fail, it's pretty much an
> all-at-once hard misfire under load. I would suggest replacing the set
> (it is a set of three wires BTW) if one of them began causing a
> problem, or if the mileage was really high. Coil packs are about
> $90ish each and include the spark plug boot (which is what usually
> shorts to the plug tube and causes the eventual problem).

Is the boot available separate?
I looked a the Belden wire set, it is indeed a 3 wire set.
No separate boot on the short side.

> > > >Depends on the labor time, which I don't have at hand right now.
> > > >Some mini vans are a bitch for access.
> > > >If the intake manifold lays over the spark plugs and wires, the
> > > >labor isn't surprising.
>
> I get 2.0 hours at work (dealer). I take off the cowl which adds labor
> cost over a similar plug removal job in a 1MZ-FE equipped car. As with
> most things, do a couple and it's cake.

Point being, everyone thinks this is as easy and cheap as tuning
up a 2.2 Chrysler. It isn't.

> > As a rule, Toyota doesn't usually put their fuel filters in
> > easily accessible places. My guess (never done a Sienna) is it's
> > down low on the firewall in the engine compartment and not very
> > accessible.
>
> Not too bad to get at, maybe .5 to 1.0 labor depending on the shop.

> .8 hrs in Mitchell
>
> Finally, I think the OP got his PCV and F/F prices switched.

Makes sense, the FF looked a bit low$$.

aarcuda69062 ) writes:
> In article >,
> (William R. Watt) wrote:
>
>> Look at the brand and model printed on your new plugs and wires and get
>> prices for them from an auto parts store. If they are out of line you
>> could ask why you were charged so much. I've written to the mayor of a
>> town where a shop attempted to rip me off on a vacation trip. After
>> getting the estimate I drove off and had the work done elsewhere.
>
> What the hell was the mayor going to do?

All I know is he wrote back thanking me and said he passed the letter on
to the chief of police. I assunme mayors don't like crooks giving their
towns bad names. Of course this *was* a muffler chain.
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Alex Rodriguez ) writes:

> I never understood this. I can change a disc brake in less than half the time
> of a drum brake, yet the price is ths same, or higher, as getting drum brakes
> serviced. I just change the brakes myself and save myself the expense and
> hassle of taking the car to the shop.

From what I heard the standard is a scam. If a mechanic can't do a job in
half the standard time he's out the door.

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> You made the mistake for not talking to the mechanic or shop foreman and
> getting an estimate.

That doesn't always work. I was at a parts store today to see about
getting my battery tested. Before taking the battery out of the car I went
in and asked about the test. I was told it tells how much life is left in
the battery and the test would not harm the battery. A few minutes and I
was back in the store with the battery. A different guy hooked it up to
the tester. (All it does is display the cold cranking amps and then start
charging the battery.) The display said it would be ready in 32 minutes so
the guy walked back to the counter and said it would take another 32
minutes. I asked how much life was left in the battery and he said it
doesn't say. After waiting about 5 minutes I asked why the test took so
long. He said it was charging the battery. I asked if it would be okay to
put the battery back in the car. He said sure so I left with my battery.
Asking beforehand doesn't always work.

What usually worksfor me is calling a few places and comparing estimates.

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aarcuda69062 wrote:

> Actually, NAPA shows the Iridium plugs at $18.00 ea. and the
> Platinums at $27.00 ea. list price of course...

Well, I would call the dealer then I think our customer pay prices
are about $10 for platinum and about $16 - $20 for Iridium. This is in
a high rent area as well. These are Toyota-boxed ND plugs which are
harder to find in the aftermarket than NGK, but both are great
products. Anyhoo, I think Napa's site is in error because their price
difference doesn't make sense an any level.

> Is the boot available separate?

I can check on that, I think they do but can't remember. D'oh...

> Point being, everyone thinks this is as easy and cheap as tuning
> up a 2.2 Chrysler. It isn't.

Only the uninformed or religiously anti-mechanic. Often one in the
same.

Toyota MDT in MO

"William R. Watt" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> > You made the mistake for not talking to the mechanic or shop foreman and
> > getting an estimate.
>
> That doesn't always work.

Nope, you're right, William, it doesn't always work, but it beats the hell
out
of not asking.