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69 Chevy Woes



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 12th 05, 09:07 PM
Ralph D.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 69 Chevy Woes

In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but can't
explain it nonetheless.

Issue 1:

This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no pattern).
Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will blow
the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs rather
well otherwise. They just up and quit.



Issue 2:


5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The alternator light
does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition... only
about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on before
cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every now and
again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark when
striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.




Here's what I think... but what the hell do I know:



I think that when the engine is shut down with the points closed it is
letting the battery back-feed through the condenser somehow. I have
absolutely nothing to support that theory except for a guess, and have not a
clue as to how I would suggest he go about pursuing that theory. And forget
anyone over there taking anything to a garage as they'd feel like someone
castrated the family jewels at the mere suggestion that among them they
can't fix every problem with every auto.

Anyhow... They are going to drop a HEI distributor in it and deal with the
light separately, but I'm guessing they'll end up popping modules next. He
says he has another alternator around, but I'm wondering if there isn't
something external to it involved.



Suggestions?




Ads
  #2  
Old February 13th 05, 01:36 AM
James C. Reeves
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ralph D." > wrote in message
...
> In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
> unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but can't
> explain it nonetheless.
>
> Issue 1:
>
> This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no pattern).
> Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will blow
> the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs
> rather
> well otherwise. They just up and quit.
>
>
>
> Issue 2:
>
>
> 5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The alternator
> light
> does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition... only
> about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on before
> cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every now and
> again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark when
> striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
>
>
>
>
> Here's what I think... but what the hell do I know:
>
>
>
> I think that when the engine is shut down with the points closed it is
> letting the battery back-feed through the condenser somehow. I have
> absolutely nothing to support that theory except for a guess, and have not
> a
> clue as to how I would suggest he go about pursuing that theory. And
> forget
> anyone over there taking anything to a garage as they'd feel like someone
> castrated the family jewels at the mere suggestion that among them they
> can't fix every problem with every auto.
>
> Anyhow... They are going to drop a HEI distributor in it and deal with the
> light separately, but I'm guessing they'll end up popping modules next. He
> says he has another alternator around, but I'm wondering if there isn't
> something external to it involved.
>
>
>
> Suggestions?
>
>


I have none...but do have fond memories of the 1968 Chevy Impala Custom
Coupe I learned to drive on! Good luck with your question. I x-posed over
to the GM NG to broaden the audience.



  #3  
Old February 13th 05, 01:38 AM
James C. Reeves
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

>
> I have none...but do have fond memories of the 1968 Chevy Impala Custom
> Coupe I learned to drive on! Good luck with your question. I x-posed
> over to the GM NG to broaden the audience.
>
>
>


Oops, I mean 1969 Chevy Custom Coupe. The grandmother had a 1968
Biscayne..learned to drive that too (no power brakes or steering on that
puppy though!)


  #4  
Old February 13th 05, 02:37 AM
Comboverfish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Ralph D. wrote:
> In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
> unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but

can't
> explain it nonetheless.
>
> Issue 1:
>
> This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no

pattern).
> Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will

blow
> the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs

rather
> well otherwise. They just up and quit.
>
>
>
> Issue 2:
>
>
> 5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The

alternator light
> does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition...

only
> about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on

before
> cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every

now and
> again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark

when
> striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
>
>
>
>
> Here's what I think... but what the hell do I know:
>
>
>
> I think that when the engine is shut down with the points closed it

is
> letting the battery back-feed through the condenser somehow. I have
> absolutely nothing to support that theory except for a guess, and

have not a
> clue as to how I would suggest he go about pursuing that theory. And

forget
> anyone over there taking anything to a garage as they'd feel like

someone
> castrated the family jewels at the mere suggestion that among them

they
> can't fix every problem with every auto.
>
> Anyhow... They are going to drop a HEI distributor in it and deal

with the
> light separately, but I'm guessing they'll end up popping modules

next. He
> says he has another alternator around, but I'm wondering if there

isn't
> something external to it involved.
>
>
>
> Suggestions?


I would deal with it as if the two may be related (hope). I would
check Key Off battery current drain with a DVOM hooked between a
removed battery terminal and the corresponding battery post. There
should be next to no drain on an old vehicle like yours unless you have
electronic addons that have key off memory. If you find an unusually
high draw, carefully unhook the wires to the alternator (remember
they're still hot) Actually, this may have an external regulator (the
car is older than me) but just unhook anything alternator/regulator
related. If the draw goes away you can rightfully assume that the
regulator or rectifier (wherever it is) is finding a path to ground for
B+.

I don't know enough about condensers (capacitors) to know what causes
one to fail, but I would make a WAG that too much current finding it's
way through one to ground could be the cuplrit, or excessive voltage
'bouncing' from defective points or incorrect dwell setting.

Toyota MDT in MO

  #5  
Old February 13th 05, 03:47 AM
Steve B.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:07:07 -0500, "Ralph D." >
wrote:

>In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
>unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but can't
>explain it nonetheless.
>
>Issue 1:
>
>This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no pattern).
>Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will blow
>the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs rather
>well otherwise. They just up and quit.
>
>
>
>Issue 2:
>
>
>5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The alternator light
>does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition... only
>about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on before
>cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every now and
>again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark when
>striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
>
>



You have an alternator / voltage regulator problem causing #2 most
likely. I'm not sure if the regulator was internal or still on the
firewall in '69. If it is a separate unit replace it.

Don't know if #2 would cause problems with #1 or not.

Steve B.
  #6  
Old February 13th 05, 04:07 AM
gfulton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Comboverfish" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Ralph D. wrote:
> > In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
> > unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but

> can't
> > explain it nonetheless.
> >
> > Issue 1:
> >
> > This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no

> pattern).
> > Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will

> blow
> > the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs

> rather
> > well otherwise. They just up and quit.
> >
> >
> >
> > Issue 2:
> >
> >
> > 5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The

> alternator light
> > does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition...

> only
> > about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on

> before
> > cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every

> now and
> > again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark

> when
> > striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's what I think... but what the hell do I know:
> >
> >
> >
> > I think that when the engine is shut down with the points closed it

> is
> > letting the battery back-feed through the condenser somehow. I have
> > absolutely nothing to support that theory except for a guess, and

> have not a
> > clue as to how I would suggest he go about pursuing that theory. And

> forget
> > anyone over there taking anything to a garage as they'd feel like

> someone
> > castrated the family jewels at the mere suggestion that among them

> they
> > can't fix every problem with every auto.
> >
> > Anyhow... They are going to drop a HEI distributor in it and deal

> with the
> > light separately, but I'm guessing they'll end up popping modules

> next. He
> > says he has another alternator around, but I'm wondering if there

> isn't
> > something external to it involved.
> >
> >
> >
> > Suggestions?



Had the old '64 Impala family car given to me after I got out of the
service. 327 engine. Seems like I remember there was a large resistor to
drop voltage to the coil and wired to the "run" position of the ignition
switch. It was bypassed during start due the lower voltage applied to the
coil from the battery voltage being pulled down by the starter. Most cars
had this system in those days. Sometimes it was just a length of resistance
wire. You might check if someone had that resistor burn out on them and
just bypassed it with wire. That would keep the voltage at the coil too
high during run, causing it to pull excessive current, which would result in
a higher current also at the condensor. As far as the alternator light, my
only thought is a bad alternator with an internal short. Can you get
another one somewhere from a friend to put on there and troubleshoot it?
Hope this helps. Sure like to see the old Chevys on the road.

Garrett Fulton



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  #7  
Old February 13th 05, 04:36 AM
Ralph D.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Comboverfish" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Ralph D. wrote:
> > In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
> > unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but

> can't
> > explain it nonetheless.
> >
> > Issue 1:
> >
> > This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no

> pattern).
> > Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will

> blow
> > the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs

> rather
> > well otherwise. They just up and quit.
> >
> >
> >
> > Issue 2:
> >
> >
> > 5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The

> alternator light
> > does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition...

> only
> > about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on

> before
> > cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every

> now and
> > again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark

> when
> > striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's what I think... but what the hell do I know:
> >
> >
> >
> > I think that when the engine is shut down with the points closed it

> is
> > letting the battery back-feed through the condenser somehow. I have
> > absolutely nothing to support that theory except for a guess, and

> have not a
> > clue as to how I would suggest he go about pursuing that theory. And

> forget
> > anyone over there taking anything to a garage as they'd feel like

> someone
> > castrated the family jewels at the mere suggestion that among them

> they
> > can't fix every problem with every auto.
> >
> > Anyhow... They are going to drop a HEI distributor in it and deal

> with the
> > light separately, but I'm guessing they'll end up popping modules

> next. He
> > says he has another alternator around, but I'm wondering if there

> isn't
> > something external to it involved.
> >
> >
> >
> > Suggestions?

>
> I would deal with it as if the two may be related (hope). I would
> check Key Off battery current drain with a DVOM hooked between a
> removed battery terminal and the corresponding battery post. There
> should be next to no drain on an old vehicle like yours unless you have
> electronic addons that have key off memory. If you find an unusually
> high draw, carefully unhook the wires to the alternator (remember
> they're still hot) Actually, this may have an external regulator (the
> car is older than me) but just unhook anything alternator/regulator
> related. If the draw goes away you can rightfully assume that the
> regulator or rectifier (wherever it is) is finding a path to ground for
> B+.
>
> I don't know enough about condensers (capacitors) to know what causes
> one to fail, but I would make a WAG that too much current finding it's
> way through one to ground could be the cuplrit, or excessive voltage
> 'bouncing' from defective points or incorrect dwell setting.
>



Well, see that's the unfortunate part... I *am* old enough to remember, but
I can't. I do remember when some cars didn't have accessory positions on the
ignitions and parents squawked not to run the radio with the car in the on
position because it would ruin the condenser... I don't know just why... but
if this thing is somehow backfeeding the condenser from the battery it would
build and discharge and wahlah a delayed light. But I just don't remember
enough about how it all worked.





  #8  
Old February 13th 05, 04:37 AM
Ralph D.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"gfulton" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Comboverfish" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Ralph D. wrote:
> > > In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
> > > unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but

> > can't
> > > explain it nonetheless.
> > >
> > > Issue 1:
> > >
> > > This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no

> > pattern).
> > > Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will

> > blow
> > > the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs

> > rather
> > > well otherwise. They just up and quit.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Issue 2:
> > >
> > >
> > > 5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The

> > alternator light
> > > does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition...

> > only
> > > about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on

> > before
> > > cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every

> > now and
> > > again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark

> > when
> > > striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's what I think... but what the hell do I know:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that when the engine is shut down with the points closed it

> > is
> > > letting the battery back-feed through the condenser somehow. I have
> > > absolutely nothing to support that theory except for a guess, and

> > have not a
> > > clue as to how I would suggest he go about pursuing that theory. And

> > forget
> > > anyone over there taking anything to a garage as they'd feel like

> > someone
> > > castrated the family jewels at the mere suggestion that among them

> > they
> > > can't fix every problem with every auto.
> > >
> > > Anyhow... They are going to drop a HEI distributor in it and deal

> > with the
> > > light separately, but I'm guessing they'll end up popping modules

> > next. He
> > > says he has another alternator around, but I'm wondering if there

> > isn't
> > > something external to it involved.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Suggestions?

>
>
> Had the old '64 Impala family car given to me after I got out of the
> service. 327 engine. Seems like I remember there was a large resistor to
> drop voltage to the coil and wired to the "run" position of the ignition
> switch. It was bypassed during start due the lower voltage applied to the
> coil from the battery voltage being pulled down by the starter. Most cars
> had this system in those days. Sometimes it was just a length of

resistance
> wire. You might check if someone had that resistor burn out on them and
> just bypassed it with wire. That would keep the voltage at the coil too
> high during run, causing it to pull excessive current, which would result

in
> a higher current also at the condensor. As far as the alternator light,

my
> only thought is a bad alternator with an internal short. Can you get
> another one somewhere from a friend to put on there and troubleshoot it?
> Hope this helps. Sure like to see the old Chevys on the road.
>


Hmmmmm... I seem to remember something like this, too... but I might be
picturing something else. Didn't this wire have a resister in a can about
5/16dia by about an inch and a half or so long dangling with another wire to
the same side of the coil? I might be thinking that because I *want* to
think that... so I'll have to go over in the morning or ring him or
something.


He says he has another alternator there somewhere, but I have to wonder if
the issue is external to it if he is not hammering alternators or something
in the process. That the light waits 5 minutes to come on suggests to me
that a capacitor or something is building a charge and then letting it go
and activating the light at that time... Condenser? It's just odd that they
are happening simultaneously... but I can't figure what path would allow a
back flow from the battery to the condenser.




Thanks for the replies so far, folks.





  #9  
Old February 13th 05, 06:39 AM
Wendy & John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ralph D." wrote: (69 Impala w/327)

Issue 1: Blows new condensers at odd times (no pattern).
Might take a day... might take a week. Car runs and performs
rather well otherwise. They just up and quit.

Some things which make a good condenser fail: High
heat, insufficient capacity, mechanical deformation,
high-voltage arc from cracked distributor cap or rotor.
Marginal insulation quality in a distributor cap may allow
arcing inside if a plug wire is disconnected.

Issue 2: Alternator light comes on 5 minutes after parking.
The alternator light does not come on while operating nor
upon turning off the ignition... only about 5 minutes later.
It does come on when the key is turned to on before
cranking, so it appears to function correctly. Now and
again it drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark
when striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
I think that when the engine is shut down with the points
closed it is letting the battery back-feed through the
condenser somehow. Suggestions?

It sounds like a gremlin is turning the ignition back on
after 5 minutes. This would turn on the dash gauges
and activate the ignition points, thereby draining the
battery. This could mean a faulty ignition switch
or ........ ran out of bright ideas.

Good luck.


Wendy & John.




  #10  
Old February 13th 05, 08:19 AM
Billy Bad Assr©
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ralph D." > wrote in message
...

> In-law has a 69 Impala w/327. He has two problems that he thinks are
> unrelated, but can't explain either. I think they are related... but can't
> explain it nonetheless.
>
> Issue 1:
>
> This thing started blowing condensers at odd times (meaning no pattern).
> Might take a day... might take a week... but sooner or later it will blow
> the condenser. These are new, not used and the car runs and performs rather
> well otherwise. They just up and quit.




Is their a ballast resister?

When was the last time spark plugs, wires, cap & rotor R/R?

Are you using resister spark plug wires or perhaps resister plugs?



Also you may want to check the spark plug gap. appropriately set?!!



> 5 minutes after parking, the alternator light comes on. The alternator light
> does not come on while operating nor upon turning off the ignition... only
> about 5 minutes later. It does come on when the key is turned to on before
> cranking, so it appears to function correctly. The Kicker... every now and
> again this thing drains it's battery, but when testing has no spark when
> striking a cable to terminal suggesting no grounded short.
>




Sounds like a mechanical regulator >Needs Adjustment<

Possibly an intermittent short or perhaps a diode is loose!



I would diagnose the Charging system 1st - Best way is to take it to your local
auto shop!

Perhaps it turns out to be vehicles regulator is over charging battery?! i.e. I
could see a set of points and possibly a condenser fail!


>
> Here's what I think... but what the hell do I know:
>
>
>
> I think that when the engine is shut down with the points closed it is
> letting the battery back-feed through the condenser somehow. I have




points would fry 1st!


> absolutely nothing to support that theory except for a guess, and have not a
> clue as to how I would suggest he go about pursuing that theory. And forget
> anyone over there taking anything to a garage as they'd feel like someone




Condenser is getting too much power from somewhere!! Alternator could very well
be the root of the condenser issue.



BBA


 




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