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Old March 14th 05, 12:51 PM
Steve Smith
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EXCEEDINGLY well-put, Dave!

"Dave Henrie" > wrote in message
. 97.136...
> "Jan Verschueren" > wrote in
> :
>
> > "Joe62" wrote...
> >>> <snip>
> >> Oh please. This is such a useless tired old cliche of an
> >> argument.
> >> When driving a real car you don't even really see the
> >> cockpit; your brain filters out all that extraneous info
> >> to focus on the important data coming through the
> >> windshield.

> >
> > Yes, obviously, I do not look at the dash parts in a sim other than to
> > read the instruments either, but the point, with reference to creating
> > a "driving a car" instead of a "remote controlling a car" experience,
> > is that my viewpoint is not moved away from the actual driving
> > position, be it to in front of the front axle or several feet behind
> > and above the car as in GT4.
> >
> > To reverse your argument, it's hard for me to grasp anyone "not
> > seeing" this after 16 years of racing simulation.
> >
> > Jan.
> > =---
> >

> Agreed. Cockpit is the natural view. We are simulating DRIVING. We
> drive from a seat INSIDE the car, not perched on the front bumper and
> certainly not floating cosmicly above and behind like some quasi-god.
> If I wanted a non cockpit viewing angle, then Generally with it's top
> down view is just as 'real' as any nose-picking view.
> I'm not saying GT4 isn't a good piece of code, but it's lack of
> several sim features really penalizes it when comparing products. Can
> you race against cars that can take and cause damage? Does your
> performance suffer if that happens? Does the AI speed up or slow down
> depending upon your progress?
> I noticed in one of the promo adds, they had A BMW LMR V12 Le Mans car
> racing against a C60 Courage. Kudos for them, even tho I'm betting 98%
> of GT4's target audience doesn't have the slightest clue about the kind
> of racing those cars participated in.
> As a simmer who races online, I want my competitors to face the same
> restrictions of view that I do. Nobody can say a kite flyer on an oval
> doesn't have an advantage, he can see the distance to the wall, he can
> see how close the other cars are to his side, those are advantages that
> are not possible in real racing and thus should dissuade a true 'Simmer.'
> The fact that two generations have grown up thumb-driving behind cars
> from console products will only add to this divergence.
>
> Use GT4 all you want, enjoy it's diversity, marvel at it's near
> lifelike graphics, "thrill" to competing against a half dozen other cars,
> but don't even begin to think that it compares to titles with 40 or 50+
> car fields with damage physics and AI that attempt to mimic racecraft and
> and incar views.
>
> As Jan stated, you can be an R/C operator, or you can be a simulated
> pilot driving your car, not operating it from a distance.
> So float behind your car all you want, I'm sure you'll be emminently
> qualified when a true Hang Gliding sim finally is released. But don't
> expect folks like me to ACCEPT your lame justification that hanging your
> butt on the bumper is "JUST LIKE THE REAL THING!" Your brain may be able
> to filter out this non-sequiter, mine can't.
>
> dave henrie
>
>



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