In article >, fbloogyudsr wrote:
> "Brent P" > wrote

>> State of the art processes last I heard were about break even energy wise.
>>
>> The advantage of ethanol is that the heat energy to create it doesn't have
>> to come from oil....

> (Gotta be a bettor link...)
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050717/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
>
> Study Says Ethanol Not Worth the Energy
> By MARK JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 56 minutes ago
>
> ALBANY, N.Y. - Farmers, businesses and state officials are investing
> millions of dollars in ethanol and biofuel plants as renewable energy
> sources, but a new study says the alternative fuels burn more energy than
> they produce.
>
> Supporters of ethanol and other biofuels contend they burn cleaner than
> fossil fuels, reduce U.S. dependence on oil and give farmers another market
> to sell their produce.
>
> But researchers at Cornell University and the University of
> California-Berkeley say it takes 29 percent more fossil energy to turn corn
> into ethanol than the amount of fuel the process produces. For switch grass,
> a warm weather perennial grass found in the Great Plains and eastern North
> America United States, it takes 45 percent more energy and for wood, 57
> percent.
>
> It takes 27 percent more energy to turn soybeans into biodiesel fuel and
> more than double the energy produced is needed to do the same to sunflower
> plants, the study found.


Sounds like they are using some sort of 'total-cycle' estimate. The
planting and harvesting seems to be included rather than just the processing.

However I still believe that these fuels offer a way to make energy that
is useless for automobiles useful. A way to use solar, wind, nuke, and
other sources that do not lend themselves to small scales and are not easily
stored for later.

Liquid fuels can be stored comparitively easily and are compatible with
our existing infastructure. The energy loss in conversion may be worth
the convience and flexibility liquid fuel offers over the limitations of
existing (mass production) battery technology.