View Single Post
  #21  
Old January 28th 05, 05:15 AM
Michael Johnson, PE
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

WraithCobra wrote:
> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>>WraithCobra wrote:
>>
>>>Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>WraithCobra wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Joe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"WraithCobra" > wrote in
:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Um... The '03 & '04 Terminator Cobra's are already faster and
>>>>>>>have near Corvette handling when compared with the same year. The
>>>>>>>Terminator Cobras are putting more power to the ground than the
>>>>>>>same year Z06's and the new C6.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike, you're dreaming. The Corvette does 0-60 in under 4 seconds
>>>>>>off the showroom floor. What stock Cobra does that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Time slips have already proven that the Terminator is faster than
>>>>>the same year Vette (not Z06) in the 1/4.
>>>>>The Terminators put down an average of 365 horses to the ground
>>>>>show room stock, closer to 385 with only a CAI and cat-back. The
>>>>>C5 has a RWHP around 300, and the Z06 about 350.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>The next Cobra, which will be produced,
>>>>>>>will have more power than the new C6 (the Terminator already
>>>>>>>does)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Flat out nonsense. The next Cobra is nothing but a rumor. And
>>>>>>the Terminator has 390/390 vs. the C6's 400/400. Those are facts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The Terminator is under rated, that's a fact! The factory numbers
>>>>>are closer to 425/425, thats without a CAI and cat-back. The only
>>>>>thing holding the Cobra back is weight, 3650 lbs. The Terminator
>>>>>puts down over 15 more RWHP stock than the C5 Z06 (dyno proven) and
>>>>>is only a few 10ths behind in the 1/4.
>>>>>Here's some facts for you......
>>>>>http://dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?ID=28
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and will handle just as well on the new platform for less. I'm
>>>>>>>not comparing the next Cobra to the C6 Z06, they are in a
>>>>>>>different price range. And I do agree that they are two
>>>>>>>different cars for two different purposes. Heck, the Vette guys
>>>>>>>think the new Z06 will compare to the GT. Don't think so... ---
>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>>Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe
>>>>>>>---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike, you need to wake up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You need to stop Magazing racing becuse in the real world the '03 &
>>>>>'04 Cobras are faster than a C5 Vette and handle almost as well for
>>>>>thousands less.
>>>>
>>>>I agree that the '03-'04 Cobras can match, and in some instances
>>>>beat, the C5 Vettes at the drag strip but that is where it ends. A
>>>>C5 will tromp a Mustang Cobra on a road course.
>>>
>>>
>>>A stock Cobra will easily out run a stock C5 Corvette in the 1/4,
>>>the Z06 is only a half second faster. The Cobra also handles better
>>>than most people think. On a loose road course the Cobra would have
>>>no problem keeping up with a C5, a tighter course with more
>>>transitions will slow the Cobra down due to its weight distribution.

>>
>>I wouldn't say the Cobra, stock vs. stock, would easily outrun a C5 in
>>the 1/4 mile. The Vette has better traction and a weight advantage
>>thats good for the equivalent of 40-50 hp. Where the Cobra shines is
>>when the engine are done but this is the case with most forced
>>induction engines.

>
>
> Look it up, the '03 & '04 Cobras run faster 1/4 times than compareable year
> Corvettes.
>
>
>>>>The new C6 Vette is even
>>>>better and stock for stock will likely match the Cobra at the strip
>>>>and would destroy it otherwise. I like Mustangs but putting one up
>>>>against a C5, and especially a C6, will lead to a big
>>>>disappointment.
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not really comparing the Current Cobra with the C6, I just
>>>stated that the Cobra puts more power to the ground to make my point
>>>about the base C5.

>>
>>Aside from the engine changes the C6 isn't that far off from a C5 in
>>handling. In fact, the C6 isn't a new chassis but a tweaked version
>>of the C5. While power to the ground is important that is just one
>>component that makes for a good all around performance car.

>
>
> This is kinda what I'm trying to explain. The Cobra is a good all around
> performance car. The Vette handles better, the Cobra's faster. the Vette has
> better aero, the Cobra has back seats and a trunk. Different cars but a
> similar performance level considering the differences in the functionality
> of the two.
>
>
>>>>BTW, the upcoming Z06 is going to be one nasty sports car. My guess
>>>>is it will handily trounce about every sports car selling for under
>>>>$100k and give the Ford GT a good scare stock for stock.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why is it that the C6 Z06 rumors are so believable (have it running
>>>with the GT, which I don't believe) and the Cobra rumors are way off
>>>base (that it will out run and handle as well as a base C6)?

>>
>>I don't know what the new Cobra will be but I suspect it will have the
>>same drive train as the '03-'04 cars. IMO, that is one of the best,
>>if not the best, engine ever put in a mass produced automobile. Why
>>mess with success? I think Ford will probably tweak it to make a
>>little more than 400 hp.

>
>
> It already does make more than 400, dyno results on stock Cobras put the
> output at closer to 425. The next Cobra will most likely use an aluminum
> block 5.4L Twin-Screw with 450 - 550 rated horsepower similar to the GT
> engine. It may or may not be the same block used in the GT. It has been
> rumored that the Lightning and Cobra were to use the same engine before the
> Lightning was put on the back burner. Ford used the iron 4.6L block in the
> current Cobra for warrantee and longevity reasons. A 5.4L would be able to
> make more power with less stress on the block, the Twin-Screw also helps in
> this respect so a lighter aluminum block can be used.
>
>
>>>The current Cobra already out run's the current C5, there is no
>>>question about that. The current Cobra is the fastest Mustang ever
>>>sold to the public and the second best handling Mustang ever sold to
>>>the public, with the '00 Cobra R being the first. So why is it so
>>>hard to believe that the new Cobra built on the new platform will
>>>not again be faster than the current C6 Corvette and handle close to
>>>if not as well as it does? I know the new platform will still have
>>>some weight problems, but that's not as detrimental to handling as
>>>other factors that have been corrected from the old chassis.

>>
>>The problem the Mustang has when put up against the Vette is a result
>>of the intended use of each car. The Mustang is meant to be a daily
>>driver that is affordable. This results in driving positions, car's
>>center of gravity location etc. that is not optimized for all out
>>performance. The chassis is a derivative of a four door sedan which
>>has compromises from the standpoint of performance. This isn't a bad
>>thing. It's just what Ford had to do to keep it affordable and
>>functional for its intended buyers. While the chassis is light years
>>ahead of the old Fox platform it still has compromises that affect
>>the car's performance. I think Ford has hit a home run with the new
>>Stang but this doesn't mean it is a competitor for the Vette.

>
>
> I think a Cobra on the new platform will at least have the same small
> performance gap that the current Cobra has with the Vette now. The new
> Mustang platform is, don't quote me here, 32% more ridgid than the Fox4
> chasis.
>
> > Now the Vette is a completely different story. It was designed from

>
>>the ground up to be a two seater sports car. No major compromises
>>were necessary during its design. This means independent rear
>>suspensions that aren't an after thought retrofit, lower center of
>>mass, trannies located behind the driver to optimize weight
>>distribution, front suspension that doesn't compromise for engine
>>size (like in the new Mustang) and many, many other items that
>>enhance performance. All these things add up to a car that is quite
>>a capable performer even for the price of $50k. Hell, you can't buy
>>a loaded pickup truck for much less than that and many SUV's cost
>>more!

>
>
> There are other automobiles that will out handle the Vette for alot less,
> now these will not have the power of a V8 but the Vette isn't the best
> handler out there for the money either.
>
>
>>>I can't believe that so many people on a Mustang news group put the
>>>Corvette on such a high pedestal while they kick the Mustang to the
>>>curb. Makes no sense...

>>
>>I'm not kicking the Mustang to the curb. I have one sitting in my
>>garage that I'll keep until I'm taking a dirt nap. That being said, I
>>also won't take a position of making the Mustang out to be more than
>>what it is - a very good pony car at a very good price that can be a
>>daily driver, if necessary. IMO, the new Mustang fills this role
>>almost to perfection but that's about as far as I will go until I see
>>what Ford does with the Cobra version. I do know that they can only
>>do so much with the car (i.e chassis) because of it's basic design
>>function.

>
>
> I'm not making it more than it is either, I'm stating facts. The Cobra is
> faster and more powerful than the Vette. (comparing same years here) The
> Vette may handle better, but not by a wide enough margin in some cases to
> beat a Cobra. (I said some cases) The Vette is a two seat sports car where
> the Cobra has back seats and a usable trunk, which I prefer to have. And if
> I owned a Vette I'd at least know who my comptition was, or soon find out.


Go to a road course and race against a C5 Vette with a competent driver
and then get back to me. Just the advantage in braking alone will give
the Vette a tremendous advantage over a Cobra. The Vette is just plain
easier to drive fast which will make it faster than a Cobra, especially
with an amateur drivers. At the strip you might have a slight advantage
but it ends there. I'm not looking to start an agreement... just giving
a reality check.
Ads