BOB URZ wrote:


> And not all appears black in white. Take the Valvoline site.
> You would say Valvoline is a respectable company?
> http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...tion=406&aid=1
>
> go to product spec. It says this:
>
> "Recommended for use where the following fluids are specified:
>
> Ford MERCON
> GM DEXRON III, DEXRON III-G
> GM DEXRON, DEXRON II, DEXRON IIE
> Ford M2C138-CJ
> Ford M2C166-H
> Allison C-4
>
> Valvoline also recommends for use in Chrysler
> vehicles (including ATF+3 and ATF+4™)."
>
> Sounds like a pretty generic list to me. So tell me, is Valvoline full of
> ****? Is this really a "generic fluid"?
> I am just trying to get to the bottom of all this.
>

Bob, you ask Dan not to be condescending, but its a bit hard when you're
being DELIBERATELY obstinate!

The Valvoline site does NOT claim to be a universal generic fluid at
all. It has a LONG list of compatibilities, but the KEY POINT is that it
NOWHERE claims to meet the ATF+3 or +4 spec! There's a loophole that
allows them to add that last sentence, which is the fact that Chrysler
has stated that Dexron III fluids are "acceptable" for use ONLY as a
topping-off fluid when none other is available. Obviously, the correct
fluid diluted with some Dexron III is better than runniing the
transmission half dry! That DOES NOT MEAN that Dex-III is in any way
shape or form acceptable as the fill fluid during a fluid change! And
even a casual reading of the Valvoline site shows that they deliberately
USE DIFFERENT LANGUAGE in "recommending for use in Chrysler vehicles"
than they do for the others, FOR WHICH THEIR FLUID DOES MEET SPEC.
Disengenous? Yeah it is a little bit if you ask me, but there's enough
of that in advertising that you should know better and should catch the
change in wording.


> The safe answer is always use a specific 3+ product only. But if my
buddy
> goes head to head with Jiffy lube, he needs proof.


The owner's manual says use ATF+3 ONLY (except for topping off). The
Dipstick says it. You can go buy a bottle of Exxon, Quaker State, or
Coastal Petroleum fluid that DOES meet ATF+3 spec and compare to those
same companies' fluids that are Dexron III, and you'll find no
weasel-wording or overlap.

Hell, you can go to the SAE and get the entire type 7176/ATF+III spec
paper and read the gory details of which friction modifiers are
different and what it means if you want, but the owners manual and the
dipstick are quite sufficient.