"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, dreas wrote:
>
> > > The conversation wasn't about '80s Caravelles, which are M-bodies, but
> > > about '70s Caravelles, which are F-bodies. The M-bodies were *greatly*
> > > improved in corrosion resistance compared to their M-body progenitors.
> >
> > Now I'm good and confused.
>
> My fault for making a thoroughly unclear comment about F vs. M bodies and
> completely omitting the K-car derivative Caravelles.

To me, the F and M's are all about the same, being the same size with more
or
less the same chassis and drivetrain beneath them. I don't much care for
anything
FWD. Since driving an 82 or 83 Aries K, I'm not impressed by them...

> The Diplomat, LeBaron and Canadian Caravelle were introduced in the late
> 1970s (1977, 1977 and 1978, respectively) as upmarket versions of the
> F-bodies (Aspen and Volare). Don't remember when the Plymouth Gran Fury
> got badge-engineered into existence from a Diplomat. Sheetmetal changes
> relative to the Aspen/Volare were EXTREMELY limited...basically new front
> and rear header panels and slightly reshaped hoods and trunks on the
> 4-doors. The rest of the exterior differences involved schtuff like landau
> roofs with opera lights, chrome trim, phony wire wheel covers, ornaments,
> badges, etc. For most intents and purposes, the only significant
> difference between an "F-body" and an "M-body" was the designation -- it
> was only four years earlier that most sheetmetal would not interchange
> between same-year Dodge Darts and Plymouth Valiants, both A-bodies!

The one difference is that the front suspension was modified. Didn't the
torsion
bars on F bodies go longitudinal like on my '80 New Yorker? And didn't the
torsion bars go transverse on later model [M-body] Dodges and Plymouths?

> The F-bodies (Aspen, Volare) went away after the 1981 model year, and the
> M-bodies continued their slow and very limited evolution. Rustproofing got
> much better, and there were some sheetmetal changes, but the undercar
> stuff (suspension, etc.) as well as the doors(!) remained interchangeable
> with F-body items. This was true until the last little styling change in
> '87 slightly modified the windowframe shape of the rear doors.

Heh. That would depend on if your car is a Fifth Avenue, or
Diplomat/Caravelle.

> > Are you saying that there was a Caravelle with a Volare/Aspen type body?
>
> All the early Caravelles had a "Volare/Aspen type body" with the same
> minor differences that set a Diplomat apart from an Aspen.
>
> > what about those FWD 80's Caravelles that look like slightly enlarged
> > K-cars, resembling Chrysler E-class cars?
>
> Yep, Plymouth Caravelle - Dodge 600 - Chrysler E-class. What about them?

They were produced at the same time as the M-bodies with the same nameplates
on them. I'm not interested in them anyway...

> > Let's not get started on all the different things that were called New
> > Yorker from 1980 to 1990.
>
> Oh, no, let's! There was the M-body Chrysler New Yorker Fifth Avenue (not
> to be confused with the K-car derivative or the AC-body introduced in '89
> or so as a rebadged Dodge Die-nasty.

I looked at Die-Nastys once or twice, but the FWD kept killing the idea for
me. I prefer RWD if given the choice...

The real New Yorker Fifth Avenue was bigger, like a St. Regis. Mine was a
1980 with a stainless steel top, and the top was alligator-grain vinyl to
the back
of the top. I converted it to run on propane, got tired of it and sold it.
I'd still
like to get the 360 from that and put it in my Caravelle...

I'd like to get another '80 New Yorker. I'm sure I'll find one eventually.
There
are a few around, and it will only be a matter of time before I find one up
for
sale in reasonable condition with the full leather interior...

Right now, my garage/driveway contains a '87 Trans Am, the '87 Caravelle
318, and a '68 Montego. Is three cars enough? All I need is space for more,
;-]

-'dreas