In article >, Jim Yanik wrote:

>> Yes I admit that taxation is often not logical.
>
> That is not what you wrote.Your words;"It's a tax." referrring to license
> plate "renewals".

So are speeding tickets for the most part. So is social security.

> Your registration does not wear out,fade away,or change over time,so the
> only reason for "renewal" is a *user fee*,no other reason.

I have to pay all sorts of taxes annually. that doesn't make them user
fees.

> It may be small,but applied to millions of autos per state,it adds up to a
> nice piece of change.

certainly not enough to cover unlimited usage. Unlimited cellphone
packages cost many, many times more.

>>> Much of what gov't does does not make sense.
>>
>> BINGO. hence it's not a user fee just because it has to be paid every
>> years.
>
> Sure it is a user fee;the "renewal" sticker is your tax stamp,just like on
> cigarette packs.

And cig taxes aren't user taxes for anything.


>>> Check your eyesight and have a new picture taken.
>>> Licenses do wear out,or need updating.(Not so for your lic.plate.)
>>> Maybe get you to pay any outstanding parking tickets,too.
>>
>> I've seen beaten up and worn license plates.
>
> Sure,due to bumping into things,and here in the South,even fading.
> But not common enough to necessitate "renewal" EVERY YEAR.

Oh well,,, back in the day they were replaced every year... go figure.

> Florida sends me a new plate with a new number every 5 years,IIRC.
> One nice thing is that if your FL.plate gets damaged in a collision or
> stolen,you can get a new plate FREE.You need a police report reference
> number,though.Oh,and the yearly FL plate "renewal" fees go to the county
> TAX COLLECTOR.

Not in IL. IL charges for new plates.


>>>> Are you going to say that's a 'user fee' too?
>>
>>> In a way,yes.You are licensed -to use- a motor vehicle even if it is
>>> not registered to you,like a rental,or another person's licensed
>>> auto. Note that you need no driver's license if you operate
>>> off-road,on private property.Same for lic.plates and registration.
>>
>> If government could figure out a way to tax it and control it on
>> private property, they would.
>
> No,because it doesn't affect anyone in the public venue.

That's why they can't. Remove that limitation on government and they damn
well will tax it.

>> You are simply pointing out a
>> constitutional issue, and confusing it with paying-for-roads.

> No,you simply refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

The obvious is your being picky with tax labels for bicycling and not
being so with autos.

> License plate fees ARE a "user fee";for the *license to USE* the vehicle on
> public roads.(state permission)

Not that I have seen in the law.

> I suspect that if this were not part of the argument about licensing
> bicycles for road use,you'd have admitted it to be a user fee long ago.

It's not a user fee in IL. I've had a car ticketed that was parked on
private property for expired registration. It never left the property.
Bogus ticket, because the law doesn't require it, but the cops certainly
don't share your interpetation of it as just a 'user fee'.