Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 09:21:00 -0600, "HLS" > wrote:
>
>
>>I have, like some others, used antiseize for years, and have never EVER had
>>a lug nut loosen, nor have I snapped one off.
>>
>>The recommencded torque specs ARE for clean but unlubricated threads. (Does
>>anyone run a die over the threads of the stud, or a tap through the lug nut,
>>or wire brush them? I have done so. It helps even the playing field, but
>>doesn't prevent rust and corrosive attack as a chemical compound might.)

Yup, all of the above.

>>
>>Antiseize compounds will cause a reduction in sliding friction whether they
>>are technically called lubricants or not. ( Spit will too, temporarily)
>>
>>I tried to research this effect on the web some time ago, and found one site
>>that suggested derating the torque by about 15-20% if antiseize were to be
>>used.
>>
>>Do what works for you. That is what evolutionary operations is based upon.
>
>
> Evolution in action.
> When the dealership starts lubing their lugs, that's when I will begin
> lubing mine. Until then, I have a vehicle that is under =warranty=
> and I guarantee if something goes wrong with the car, the first thing
> the dealership is going to do is look for an excuse to bill me for the
> work.

You expect a DEALERSHIP to do an "above-and-beyond" job in order to
promote the long-term health and ease of service of your machine?
Something that costs both time and money like putting anti-seize on
lugs, when they're just going to use an impact to run them off next time
anyway? Excuse me while I have a nice little chuckle.

However, I will quote from the Porsche 944 FSM, section 44, "installing
and removing:"

2. Lubricate threads and calott with Optimoly TA.

They also recommend a torque of almost 100 ft-lb, and remember, these
are alloy lug nuts not steel.


>
> You did this when we told you not to, or
> you didn't do that when we told you you had to
>
> or some such variation.
>
> If it was such a damn GOOD IDEA, millions of people would be doing it.
> Maybe BILLIONS of people. As it is, you're only going to find a
> fraction of 1% of car owner's who do this. A _small_ fraction. An
> infinitesimally small fraction.

Significant, in my experience. Everyone I know who does their own
maintenance does it. They also put Teflon tape on their bleeder screws,
even though the manual may not tell them to do that either, nor does the
dealership. It's called experience.


> BTW, I found this in a Copernic Agent search:
>
> Effect of Lubrication on Torque
> Torque Rating in Foot/Pounds
> Lubricant ½-13 thread/inch
> NO LUBE, steel 121
> Plated & cleaned 90 (26%)
> SAE 20 oil 87 (28%)
> SAE 40 oil 83 (31%)
> Plated & SAE 30 79 (35%)
> White grease 79 (35%)
> Dry Moly film 66 (45%)
> Graphite $ oil 62 (49%)
>
> This is torque de-rating for non-dry threads.
> Use at your own risk.
>
> Lg
>

Well, you're never going to see a UNC thread lug, but other than that
that seems like a fine and dandy table. I would use the "plated and
cleaned" figure as a baseline however, so the derating would be
something on the order of the 15-20% that another poster mentioned.

nate


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