Eagle Starter Problem
 

I'm having a problem with my '95 Eagle's starter (Vision ESI 3.3; ND
starter). Any time it's damp out (it seems) the starter solenoid will
simply click and not engage the starter, or simply give a little half
hearted crank. I took it out last week and had it tested. It didn't
turn up any problems, and I had they key it 15 or 20 times to make sure
it didn't show up any issues. The Pep Boys tech who bench tested it
mentioned he's had the same issue with his late 90's Intrepid, which
likely has the same starter in it. He didn't come to a resolution
either.

While I had the starter out, I disassembled the solenoid and took the
contacts out of it and cleaned them up They weren't horrifically
corroded or anything, but I figured bare clean metal would get e better
connection.

I'm still having the same problem, and I'd like to try and resolve it
before cold weather sets in. I'm thinking the next thing I'll do is
replace the cables. I dont' think my battery is bad, because I just
replaced it last fall, but I might have it load tested to rule that
out.

What's next? I see some notes on the solenoid contacts... Is there a
way to know for sure whether the contacts are actually bad?

Eagle Starter Problem
 

On 3 Sep 2006 18:53:00 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:

>While I had the starter out, I disassembled the solenoid and took the
>contacts out of it and cleaned them up They weren't horrifically
>corroded or anything, but I figured bare clean metal would get e better
>connection. <snip>

Did you remove/burnish the contactor ring driven by the solenoid
armature? VERY common intermittant failure in any vintage Nippondenso
starter.

Eagle Starter Problem
 

DeserTBoB wrote:
> On 3 Sep 2006 18:53:00 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:
>
> >While I had the starter out, I disassembled the solenoid and took the
> >contacts out of it and cleaned them up They weren't horrifically
> >corroded or anything, but I figured bare clean metal would get e better
> >connection. <snip>
>
> Did you remove/burnish the contactor ring driven by the solenoid
> armature? VERY common intermittant failure in any vintage Nippondenso
> starter.

I don't know all the proper names for the components of the solenoid,
but if you're referring to the circular contact on the shaft that goes
down into the solenoid armature and would complete the circuit across
the two contacts through the case of the solenoid, then yes. I removed
the shaft and cleaned up all the way around the edge of it with a wire
wheel. I also unbolted both of the contacts that pass through the case
of the solenoid, and did the same to them both on the contacts and on
the threads. My thinking being that the cleaner all the contacts are,
the less resistence to current flow there will be. I'm clearly not
having any current flow problems in the activation of the solenoid
windings as I can distinctly hear that throwing and going clack, and
we're not talking about the sort of clicking that you get when your
battery is weak.

I read some other posts that talked about Toyota's using the same sort
of starter solenoid and having the solenoid contacts available (whereas
our wonderful Chrysler dealers wouldn't). I think I'm going to pursue
that next since those contacts are probably relatively cheap.

Eagle Starter Problem
 

On 4 Sep 2006 06:18:22 -0700, "bruce" > wrote:

>I don't know all the proper names for the components of the solenoid,
>but if you're referring to the circular contact on the shaft that goes
>down into the solenoid armature and would complete the circuit across
>the two contacts through the case of the solenoid, then yes. I removed
>the shaft and cleaned up all the way around the edge of it with a wire
>wheel. I also unbolted both of the contacts that pass through the case
>of the solenoid, and did the same to them both on the contacts and on
>the threads. My thinking being that the cleaner all the contacts are,
>the less resistence to current flow there will be. <snip>

Quite correct. Mr. Ohm's Law works every time.

> I'm clearly not
>having any current flow problems in the activation of the solenoid
>windings as I can distinctly hear that throwing and going clack, and
>we're not talking about the sort of clicking that you get when your
>battery is weak. <snip>

>I read some other posts that talked about Toyota's using the same sort
>of starter solenoid and having the solenoid contacts available (whereas
>our wonderful Chrysler dealers wouldn't). I think I'm going to pursue
>that next since those contacts are probably relatively cheap. <snip>

If the contacts are both clean and properly making, replacing them
won't do any good. The way to check them properly is to measure the
voltage drop across them when trying to use the started. To do this,
place a voltmeter across the battery connection and the motor terminal
and then crank the starter. Nippondensos generally (but not always)
have access to the motor side of the solenoid from the outside of the
case, so you shouldn't have muc problem doing this. When the motor
cranks and if the contacts are good, there should be as close to zero
voltage drop at this point as possible. However, if there's a high
resistance in the contactor circuit, you'll see a large voltage drop
here. Also, when/in the motor refuses to turn, you'll probably see
nearly full battery voltage here, so set your voltage meter (if it's
not autoranging) to accommodate 12 VDC.

If the contactor is good, you see little if any voltage drop and the
motor STILL won't turn, you're looking at stuck/dirty/worn brushes,
which on a Nippondenso, aren't that big a deal to change out. Brushes
for these are usually available at better auto parts outlets...NOT the
schlock chains, like Poop Boys and AutoBone.

Good luck!

Eagle Starter Problem
 

bruce wrote:
>
> I read some other posts that talked about Toyota's using the same sort
> of starter solenoid and having the solenoid contacts available (whereas
> our wonderful Chrysler dealers wouldn't). I think I'm going to pursue
> that next since those contacts are probably relatively cheap.


There's a shop here in Independence, MO, that will sell the solenoid
contacts. I've bought contacts for a few Chrysler minivan starters, and
they always tell me to bring the starter in to match the parts
visually. Most shops that are in the business of rebuilding things
don't like to sell parts, but these guys went ahead and sold me what I
needed for well under $5.

Eagle Starter Problem
 

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 10:13:48 -0500, Robbie and Laura Reynolds
> wrote:

>There's a shop here in Independence, MO, that will sell the solenoid
>contacts. I've bought contacts for a few Chrysler minivan starters, and
>they always tell me to bring the starter in to match the parts
>visually. Most shops that are in the business of rebuilding things
>don't like to sell parts, but these guys went ahead and sold me what I
>needed for well under $5. <snip>

It's getting very hard to find an old-time "auto electric shop," which
used to specialize in battery rebuilding (a lost art), generator
rebuilding (same), alternator rebuilding (getting to be a lost art)
and...tada...starter overhaul, still a big business, but one lost to
cheeseball rebuilders that feed cheeseball retailers like AutoBone.
There's still one here locally and he will sell genuine, usually OEM,
starter and alternator parts for a reasonable price. He'll also turn
slip rings if you bring in the armature, or turn/undercut a starter or
generator commutator. I do those myself on a small engine lathe here
at home, so I don't need those services usually, but if I have a
burned or missing commutator sector, he's got the stock to make a new
one and will solder it in and turn it for about $25. He's going to
retire in five years, and that'll be that for such shops in this whole
area.

Eagle Starter Problem
 

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 07:19:29 -0700, DeserTBoB >
wrote:

>However, if there's a high
>resistance in the contactor circuit, you'll see a large voltage drop
>here. Also, when/in the motor refuses to turn, you'll probably see
>nearly full battery voltage here, so set your voltage meter (if it's
>not autoranging) to accommodate 12 VDC. <snip>

PS: If there's a brush or winding fault in the motor proper, you'll
probably get zero voltage drop on the contactor as well, since the
motor side will still be up to battery potential and the voltmeter
can't "see" the negative battery side through the fault. Another
common failure on NDs is worn brushes, so be prepared for this, as
well.

Eagle Starter Problem
 

bruce wrote:
> I'm having a problem with my '95 Eagle's starter (Vision ESI 3.3; ND
> starter). Any time it's damp out (it seems) the starter solenoid will
> simply click and not engage the starter, or simply give a little half
> hearted crank. I took it out last week and had it tested. It didn't
> turn up any problems, and I had they key it 15 or 20 times to make sure
> it didn't show up any issues. The Pep Boys tech who bench tested it
> mentioned he's had the same issue with his late 90's Intrepid, which
> likely has the same starter in it. He didn't come to a resolution
> either.
>
> While I had the starter out, I disassembled the solenoid and took the
> contacts out of it and cleaned them up They weren't horrifically
> corroded or anything, but I figured bare clean metal would get e better
> connection.
>
> I'm still having the same problem, and I'd like to try and resolve it
> before cold weather sets in. I'm thinking the next thing I'll do is
> replace the cables. I dont' think my battery is bad, because I just
> replaced it last fall, but I might have it load tested to rule that
> out.
>
> What's next? I see some notes on the solenoid contacts... Is there a
> way to know for sure whether the contacts are actually bad?
>

They're bad whenever the starter starts doing what yours is doing :-)
Actually you probably noticed a groove in them- its not supposed to be
there, new contacts are perfectly flat.

Just replace them.