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-   -   hard shifting Saturn (http://www.autobanter.com/showthread.php?t=17983)

Tokay December 22nd 04 06:09 AM

hard shifting Saturn
 
I was just wondering if a few of you in here might be able to help me
with a problem.

Lately, my car (93 Saturn manual) has become very difficult to shift.
It seems to stick just before it gets into gear. It doesn't grind, it
just requires a LOT of muscle. And it's mostly in 1st and 2nd gear.
It doesn't have this problem when the car is off; I can shift freely
when I'm parked. It's just when the engine's running.

I'm thinking it might be a synchro issue, but I can't say for sure. I
have very little manual tranmission experience.

Does anyone else have some experience with this? Or perhaps some tips
on how to diagnose the problem?

Thanks in advance,
Tokay


Chopface December 22nd 04 04:43 PM

It can be a little trickier getting my 91 Honda Civic into 1st when its
cold out. One thing that seems to help, is waiting to shift for a few
seconds after engaging the clutch.

[email protected] December 22nd 04 05:47 PM

On 21 Dec 2004 21:09:19 -0800, "Tokay" > wrote:

||I was just wondering if a few of you in here might be able to help me
||with a problem.
||
||Lately, my car (93 Saturn manual) has become very difficult to shift.
||It seems to stick just before it gets into gear. It doesn't grind, it
||just requires a LOT of muscle. And it's mostly in 1st and 2nd gear.
||It doesn't have this problem when the car is off; I can shift freely
||when I'm parked. It's just when the engine's running.
||
||I'm thinking it might be a synchro issue, but I can't say for sure. I
||have very little manual tranmission experience.
||
||Does anyone else have some experience with this? Or perhaps some tips
||on how to diagnose the problem?

No tips, but a suggestion: Find some Redline MTL, and change out the fluid. Get
about 3 quarts, should run about $8/qt. Check the website for a local vendor.
Texas Parts Guy

N8N December 22nd 04 09:11 PM


Tokay wrote:
> I was just wondering if a few of you in here might be able to help me
> with a problem.
>
> Lately, my car (93 Saturn manual) has become very difficult to shift.
> It seems to stick just before it gets into gear. It doesn't grind, it
> just requires a LOT of muscle. And it's mostly in 1st and 2nd gear.
> It doesn't have this problem when the car is off; I can shift freely
> when I'm parked. It's just when the engine's running.
>
> I'm thinking it might be a synchro issue, but I can't say for sure.

I
> have very little manual tranmission experience.
>
> Does anyone else have some experience with this? Or perhaps some tips
> on how to diagnose the problem?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Tokay


Sounds to me like your clutch is dragging. Check your clutch cable or
hydraulics, as the case may be. Another poster suggested Redline which
I also recommend, but I just have a feeling that cold fluid isn't your
problem here - you didn't mention that the problem was temperature
related.

If it *is* temperature related, try the Redline - but also check out
your clutch to make sure that that isn't the problem. If you
rev-match, does the problem go away? I suspect that the extra force
you are using is engaging the synchros harder and allowing you to
shift, but making the synchros fight the input shaft isn't particularly
good for their longevity.

good luck,

nate


[email protected] December 23rd 04 12:18 AM

On 22 Dec 2004 12:11:00 -0800, "N8N" > wrote:

||
||Tokay wrote:
||> I was just wondering if a few of you in here might be able to help me
||> with a problem.
||>
||> Lately, my car (93 Saturn manual) has become very difficult to shift.
||> It seems to stick just before it gets into gear. It doesn't grind, it
||> just requires a LOT of muscle. And it's mostly in 1st and 2nd gear.
||> It doesn't have this problem when the car is off; I can shift freely
||> when I'm parked. It's just when the engine's running.
||>
||> I'm thinking it might be a synchro issue, but I can't say for sure.
||I
||> have very little manual tranmission experience.
||>
||> Does anyone else have some experience with this? Or perhaps some tips
||> on how to diagnose the problem?
||>
||> Thanks in advance,
||> Tokay
||
||Sounds to me like your clutch is dragging. Check your clutch cable or
||hydraulics, as the case may be. Another poster suggested Redline which
||I also recommend, but I just have a feeling that cold fluid isn't your
||problem here - you didn't mention that the problem was temperature
||related.
||
||If it *is* temperature related, try the Redline - but also check out
||your clutch to make sure that that isn't the problem. If you
||rev-match, does the problem go away? I suspect that the extra force
||you are using is engaging the synchros harder and allowing you to
||shift, but making the synchros fight the input shaft isn't particularly
||good for their longevity.

After re-reading the original post, I have to agree.
A clue may be if the cltuch engages close to the bottom of it's travel. That
is, it "hooks up" just off the floorboard.
Texas Parts Guy

Tokay December 23rd 04 11:16 PM

I'm beginning to think that I may just be low on transmission fluid. I
noticed little or no problem until I had the oil changed, and I think
maybe one of the guys let out some transmission fluid instead of oil,
the drain plugs for them are close together and easy to confuse.

I don't think it's the clutch on the grounds that I can shift freely
while in park and every now and again while driving. Also, I don't
hear any grinding noises while shifting.

It might be temperature related, it's been very cold the past few days,
but it strikes me that if the shifter sticks every time it gets cold
that the previous owner would have noticed and done something. Plus,
the shifting doesn't improve even after the car is well warmed up.

Thanks for your help so far, probably going to change the transmission
fluid to Redline, but any final thoughts would be most appreciated.


Tokay December 24th 04 04:59 AM

Update-

It's looking more and more likely to be a clutch issue. I changed the
transmission fluid; it did get a bit smoother, but it isn't nearly as
smooth as it used to be. If I push the clutch down really hard, it
improves a bit as well. I don't have much experience with manual
transmissions, so I don't know how fast they break down. I'm at just
over a hundred thousand miles, so she's probably about due....
What kind of problems can occur in a clutch? It seems to me (and my
little experience) that there's no problem with the clutch hydraulics,
because pressing it in is as smooth as ever. There's no odd noises
from it either, so I just don't know what it would be.
Thanks for all the help.


Nate Nagel December 24th 04 05:02 AM

Tokay wrote:

> Update-
>
> It's looking more and more likely to be a clutch issue. I changed the
> transmission fluid; it did get a bit smoother, but it isn't nearly as
> smooth as it used to be. If I push the clutch down really hard, it
> improves a bit as well. I don't have much experience with manual
> transmissions, so I don't know how fast they break down. I'm at just
> over a hundred thousand miles, so she's probably about due....
> What kind of problems can occur in a clutch? It seems to me (and my
> little experience) that there's no problem with the clutch hydraulics,
> because pressing it in is as smooth as ever. There's no odd noises
> from it either, so I just don't know what it would be.
> Thanks for all the help.
>


I assume from your message that you have verified that you have a
hydraulic clutch. sounds like there's air in there somewhere, I'd
recommend bleeding the cylinders and see if it improves. If it does,
but the problem comes back, you are looking at a leak somewhere in there.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Tokay December 24th 04 09:07 AM

Did I fail to mention it was a hydraulic system? My apologies...
Thanks for the advice, I'll do that when I can. come to think of it,
it does remind me of air in the brake lines: no stopping power, but the
pedal still givesresistance.
How does air find it's way into the lines without there being a leak,
anyway?


Nate Nagel December 24th 04 02:46 PM

Tokay wrote:

> Did I fail to mention it was a hydraulic system? My apologies...
> Thanks for the advice, I'll do that when I can. come to think of it,
> it does remind me of air in the brake lines: no stopping power, but the
> pedal still givesresistance.
> How does air find it's way into the lines without there being a leak,
> anyway?
>


It usually doesn't :(

One possibility, however, is if your front brakes are worn and the
reservoir level drops enough that it uncovers the hose feeding the
clutch, but that still shouldn't cause problems.

You just reminded me of something I wanted to do to *my* car - I've had
it for almost a year and still haven't run fresh brake fluid through it
yet...

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel


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