Cars - Even moe stupid cop tricks

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Even moe stupid cop tricks

"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
> jaybird wrote:
>> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>jaybird wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Brent P" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article >, jaybird wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Brent P" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article >, jaybird
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>said that in his opinion what they did looked reckless. I'm pretty
>>>>>>>>sure
>>>>>>>>that it did, but that's what happens when any car drives outside the
>>>>>>>>normal
>>>>>>>>limits of what our laws say. My point in responding to this is that
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>law
>>>>>>>>allows certain vehicles to do things outside those normal limits
>>>>>>>>because
>>>>>>>>they have different priorities.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, lets say you see someone who appears to be doing some reckless
>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>his car on the public road. You pull him over and find out he's an
>>>>>>>experienced SCCA racer. He knows exactly where the limits of his car
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>and can handle it perfectly. (much like a some people who are/were
>>>>>>>regulars of r.a.d, not me BTW) Would this fly with you and you'd let
>>>>>>>him
>>>>>>>go? I think not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If there were a provision for that in the law. I don't know that
>>>>>>there is
>>>>>>anything in it that says SCCA racers have to respond to emergencies.
>>>>>
>>>>>Legality and safety aren't the same thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Personal vehicles and emergency vehicles are not the same thing.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Mechanically, what's the difference between a crown vic with the uprated
>>>suspension and a cop car?
>>
>>
>> I don't think there is too much of a difference. I don't think it's as
>> much about performance as it is about the extra wear and tear. The guys
>> at our shop say that the suspension and electrical systems are about the
>> only major upgrade. From a google search there are claims that the brake
>> system is upgraded, rims/tires, dual exhaust, and oil/tranny coolers are
>> different. I'm not sure how much of that is offered on the standard Crown
>> Vic though. My comment above is more about purpose than performance.
>>
>
> If the performance is the same, then what's the difference? That would
> imply that a civilian driving in the same manner as a cop is just as safe
> as a cop... but of course the civilian will go to jail and lose his
> license... that doesn't seem right somehow?

Sure it does, you're just not looking at it from the right perspective. It
doesn't matter what kind of car anyone is driving. If a cop was issued a
Ford Fiesta rather than a Crown Vic, it wouldn't change the job he is doing.
His response time to a call usually has a potential to effect the outcome
unless it is an offense that occured prior.

>
> And yes you are right there are auxiliary coolers, and probably the stock
> tires are better, not sure if you get wider wheels or not. I don't know
> about the brakes, if they are physically bigger or if you just get uprated
> linings (which a civilian car probably gets at its first brake job anyway)

I don't know, I kinda wonder about the equipment sometimes. After all, it
is a government agency and they usually go with the lowest bidder for parts.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Even moe stupid cop tricks

"DTJ" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 20:35:47 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>Kinda... It's pretty reckless to go through intersections on a red light,
>>but as long as the police vehicle is operating with due care it is quite
>>legal for him to do so.
>
> I agree with you. Only in the example I gave, not one of them was
> using any care, much less due care.

I didn't see where they caused any murder/death/kills...

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Even moe stupid cop tricks

"necromancer" > wrote in message
th.net...
>> jaybird:
>>
>> Nope. That's not it at all. You've completely missed the point.
>
> No I haven't. The OP's commentary described a trio of cops engaging in
> maneuvers that could have resulted in the injury or death of innocent
> persons had the cops made the slightest mistake. And since no lights or
> sirens were used, the innocents have no reason to expect such maneuvers
> from the cops so that the citizenry can get out of the way.

No, take it from someone who has done that for years. Sometimes it's much
easier to weave in and out of traffic with no lights on because they
sometimes do more harm than good. If you're wanting to speed up, slow down,
speed up, slow down, drive into oncoming traffic, speed up, slow down.....
then run with your lights on. If you want traffic to be more of a constant
that you can anticipate and work with then it is sometimes easier with no
lights.

Years ago people used to actually move out of your way, pull to the right,
and stop no matter where they were. In today's MFFY society that is
complained about in here so often, people coming toward you almost never
pull over unless you're headed right for them. Cars have been so
sound-proofed that you can drive right up on their bumper and they still
don't see you, or they have a cell phone stuck to their ear. People cruise
in the passing lane. We have to adapt to all of that and still get where
we're going.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Even moe stupid cop tricks

In article >, jaybird wrote:

> No, take it from someone who has done that for years. Sometimes it's much
> easier to weave in and out of traffic with no lights on because they
> sometimes do more harm than good. If you're wanting to speed up, slow down,
> speed up, slow down, drive into oncoming traffic, speed up, slow down.....
> then run with your lights on. If you want traffic to be more of a constant
> that you can anticipate and work with then it is sometimes easier with no
> lights.

And all the dangers of driving like that simply vanish when you're a cop?
Of course they don't. And those of us living in the real world see cops
driving like that as rutine. Because they can get away with it because
they are cops. The exact thing you accuse citizens of doing, but cops
really are the best example of it. I used to see all sorts of creative
driving for no reason by cops when I lived on the south side of chicago.
Being on foot I would often find the same cruiser parked at the campus
7-11 after having made an illegal left on red or similiar heading in that
direction. (chicago pd and CHA pd cars usually have some sort of unique
identifing marks, like for instance I still remember a particular CHA
cruiser with a line of bullet holes down the middle of the hood. Most
however were simple things like collision damage or ford hubcaps on a
chevy)

> Years ago people used to actually move out of your way, pull to the right,
> and stop no matter where they were. In today's MFFY society that is
> complained about in here so often, people coming toward you almost never
> pull over unless you're headed right for them. Cars have been so
> sound-proofed that you can drive right up on their bumper and they still
> don't see you, or they have a cell phone stuck to their ear. People cruise
> in the passing lane. We have to adapt to all of that and still get where
> we're going.

Actually modern emergency lights and sirens are low performers for
directionality. When I hear or see them out of the corner of my eye it
takes a while to determine where they are coming from in many situations.
I know my reaction time to them is considerably longer because I have to
scan 360 degrees to find them. The older kind, the kind that was in use
when I was kid I could pick up immediately where they were relative to my
location.

Even moe stupid cop tricks

Brent P. wrote:
>I used to see all sorts of creative
>driving for no reason by cops when I lived on the south side of chicago.

I've never lived in Chicago, but its population does have a bit of a
reputation for ignoring rules. Al Capone, dead people voting by the
hundreds, hizzoner Daly vandalizing an airport in the middle of the
night.....

Even moe stupid cop tricks

"N8N" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> jaybird wrote:
>> "necromancer" > wrote in message
>> th.net...
>> >> jaybird:
>> >>
>> >> Nope. That's not it at all. You've completely missed the point.
>> >
>> > No I haven't. The OP's commentary described a trio of cops engaging in
>> > maneuvers that could have resulted in the injury or death of innocent
>> > persons had the cops made the slightest mistake. And since no lights or
>> > sirens were used, the innocents have no reason to expect such maneuvers
>> > from the cops so that the citizenry can get out of the way.
>>
>> No, take it from someone who has done that for years. Sometimes it's
>> much
>> easier to weave in and out of traffic with no lights on because they
>> sometimes do more harm than good. If you're wanting to speed up, slow
>> down,
>> speed up, slow down, drive into oncoming traffic, speed up, slow
>> down.....
>> then run with your lights on. If you want traffic to be more of a
>> constant
>> that you can anticipate and work with then it is sometimes easier with no
>> lights.
>>
>> Years ago people used to actually move out of your way, pull to the
>> right,
>> and stop no matter where they were. In today's MFFY society that is
>> complained about in here so often, people coming toward you almost never
>> pull over unless you're headed right for them. Cars have been so
>> sound-proofed that you can drive right up on their bumper and they still
>> don't see you, or they have a cell phone stuck to their ear. People
>> cruise
>> in the passing lane. We have to adapt to all of that and still get where
>> we're going.
>
> So ticket the MFFYers. If you don't have time to pull them over radio
> in the plates of the most egregious offenders.

See, it's things like this that people think are practical, but they're not.
If I'm running that hard to a call, I don't have time to slow down and read
off every plate of people who aren't yeilding or who pull to the left
instead of the right. If I do it for one, I have to do it for all... it's
only fair, right? Besides that, how am I going to ticket the driver when I
can't prove who it is? Also, on a priority call the radio is usually full
of responding units, dispatchers don't have time to run a plate during the
emergency, and who am I going to call it in to? Any other unit that's close
is going to be going to the call. Good idea, but again, something you
wouldn't know about unless you've experienced it.

>
> Is this why cops don't use their directionals, either?

Sometimes.

>
> nate
>
> (just saw a DC cop traffic weaving and cutting other drivers off
> without obvious emergency - i.e. speed not significantly higher than
> traffic - this morning, at least four lane changes IMHO too close to
> other traffic without signaling...)

Granted, we don't know the reason, but what constitutes an obvious
emergency? Should he have pulled up next to you, rolled down his window,
and told you there's something going on? Sometimes speed not significantly
higher than traffic is the only safe thing to do.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Even moe stupid cop tricks

"N8N" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> jaybird wrote:
>> "N8N" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > jaybird wrote:
>> >> "necromancer" > wrote in message
>> >> th.net...
>> >> >> jaybird:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Nope. That's not it at all. You've completely missed the point.
>> >> >
>> >> > No I haven't. The OP's commentary described a trio of cops engaging
>> >> > in
>> >> > maneuvers that could have resulted in the injury or death of
>> >> > innocent
>> >> > persons had the cops made the slightest mistake. And since no lights
>> >> > or
>> >> > sirens were used, the innocents have no reason to expect such
>> >> > maneuvers
>> >> > from the cops so that the citizenry can get out of the way.
>> >>
>> >> No, take it from someone who has done that for years. Sometimes it's
>> >> much
>> >> easier to weave in and out of traffic with no lights on because they
>> >> sometimes do more harm than good. If you're wanting to speed up, slow
>> >> down,
>> >> speed up, slow down, drive into oncoming traffic, speed up, slow
>> >> down.....
>> >> then run with your lights on. If you want traffic to be more of a
>> >> constant
>> >> that you can anticipate and work with then it is sometimes easier with
>> >> no
>> >> lights.
>> >>
>> >> Years ago people used to actually move out of your way, pull to the
>> >> right,
>> >> and stop no matter where they were. In today's MFFY society that is
>> >> complained about in here so often, people coming toward you almost
>> >> never
>> >> pull over unless you're headed right for them. Cars have been so
>> >> sound-proofed that you can drive right up on their bumper and they
>> >> still
>> >> don't see you, or they have a cell phone stuck to their ear. People
>> >> cruise
>> >> in the passing lane. We have to adapt to all of that and still get
>> >> where
>> >> we're going.
>> >
>> > So ticket the MFFYers. If you don't have time to pull them over radio
>> > in the plates of the most egregious offenders.
>>
>> See, it's things like this that people think are practical, but they're
>> not.
>> If I'm running that hard to a call, I don't have time to slow down and
>> read
>> off every plate of people who aren't yeilding or who pull to the left
>> instead of the right. If I do it for one, I have to do it for all...
>> it's
>> only fair, right? Besides that, how am I going to ticket the driver when
>> I
>> can't prove who it is? Also, on a priority call the radio is usually
>> full
>> of responding units, dispatchers don't have time to run a plate during
>> the
>> emergency, and who am I going to call it in to? Any other unit that's
>> close
>> is going to be going to the call. Good idea, but again, something you
>> wouldn't know about unless you've experienced it.
>>
>
> I didn't say it was easy... but the driving behaviors that make your
> job more difficult also make being a general civilian driver more
> difficult as well. This is why I strongly encourage cops who *aren't*
> responding to an emergency to ticket LLBers, improper mergers, etc. -
> if people are used to driving correctly, their automatic response to a
> car with lights and siren will be to move to the right. Personally I
> wouldn't care if you PITted them and kept going, but I guess there
> would probably be PR implications of that...

Hehe... yeah. I really do ticket people for those things you mention. My
two favorites are for driving in the left lane while not passing, and not
using turn signals. I think I posted in here once that I asked a guy once
if he ran out of turn signal fluid. He didn't think it was very funny, but
I got a kick out of it...

>
>> >
>> > Is this why cops don't use their directionals, either?
>>
>> Sometimes.
>>
>> >
>> > nate
>> >
>> > (just saw a DC cop traffic weaving and cutting other drivers off
>> > without obvious emergency - i.e. speed not significantly higher than
>> > traffic - this morning, at least four lane changes IMHO too close to
>> > other traffic without signaling...)
>>
>> Granted, we don't know the reason, but what constitutes an obvious
>> emergency? Should he have pulled up next to you, rolled down his window,
>> and told you there's something going on? Sometimes speed not
>> significantly
>> higher than traffic is the only safe thing to do.
>>
>
> So apparently every single cop I see on the road is responding to an
> emergency 24/7. Tell you what, ride around with me for a day and I'll
> give you $50 for every time you can point out a marked unit signaling
> correctly. I'm guessing you would go home very disappointed.

I'm not claiming that cops do crap just because they can. I'm offering
reasons why they'd do it for a valid reason even though it seems like I'm
using it as a blanket defence for every case. I just want people to think
before the kneejerk.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Even moe stupid cop tricks

jaybird wrote:
> "N8N" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > jaybird wrote:
> >> "N8N" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > jaybird wrote:
> >> >> "necromancer" > wrote in message
> >> >> th.net...
> >> >> >> jaybird:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Nope. That's not it at all. You've completely missed the point.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No I haven't. The OP's commentary described a trio of cops engaging
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > maneuvers that could have resulted in the injury or death of
> >> >> > innocent
> >> >> > persons had the cops made the slightest mistake. And since no lights
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > sirens were used, the innocents have no reason to expect such
> >> >> > maneuvers
> >> >> > from the cops so that the citizenry can get out of the way.
> >> >>
> >> >> No, take it from someone who has done that for years. Sometimes it's
> >> >> much
> >> >> easier to weave in and out of traffic with no lights on because they
> >> >> sometimes do more harm than good. If you're wanting to speed up, slow
> >> >> down,
> >> >> speed up, slow down, drive into oncoming traffic, speed up, slow
> >> >> down.....
> >> >> then run with your lights on. If you want traffic to be more of a
> >> >> constant
> >> >> that you can anticipate and work with then it is sometimes easier with
> >> >> no
> >> >> lights.
> >> >>
> >> >> Years ago people used to actually move out of your way, pull to the
> >> >> right,
> >> >> and stop no matter where they were. In today's MFFY society that is
> >> >> complained about in here so often, people coming toward you almost
> >> >> never
> >> >> pull over unless you're headed right for them. Cars have been so
> >> >> sound-proofed that you can drive right up on their bumper and they
> >> >> still
> >> >> don't see you, or they have a cell phone stuck to their ear. People
> >> >> cruise
> >> >> in the passing lane. We have to adapt to all of that and still get
> >> >> where
> >> >> we're going.
> >> >
> >> > So ticket the MFFYers. If you don't have time to pull them over radio
> >> > in the plates of the most egregious offenders.
> >>
> >> See, it's things like this that people think are practical, but they're
> >> not.
> >> If I'm running that hard to a call, I don't have time to slow down and
> >> read
> >> off every plate of people who aren't yeilding or who pull to the left
> >> instead of the right. If I do it for one, I have to do it for all...
> >> it's
> >> only fair, right? Besides that, how am I going to ticket the driver when
> >> I
> >> can't prove who it is? Also, on a priority call the radio is usually
> >> full
> >> of responding units, dispatchers don't have time to run a plate during
> >> the
> >> emergency, and who am I going to call it in to? Any other unit that's
> >> close
> >> is going to be going to the call. Good idea, but again, something you
> >> wouldn't know about unless you've experienced it.
> >>
> >
> > I didn't say it was easy... but the driving behaviors that make your
> > job more difficult also make being a general civilian driver more
> > difficult as well. This is why I strongly encourage cops who *aren't*
> > responding to an emergency to ticket LLBers, improper mergers, etc. -
> > if people are used to driving correctly, their automatic response to a
> > car with lights and siren will be to move to the right. Personally I
> > wouldn't care if you PITted them and kept going, but I guess there
> > would probably be PR implications of that...
>
> Hehe... yeah. I really do ticket people for those things you mention. My
> two favorites are for driving in the left lane while not passing, and not
> using turn signals. I think I posted in here once that I asked a guy once
> if he ran out of turn signal fluid. He didn't think it was very funny, but
> I got a kick out of it...

My point is, not only do the cops here not ticket people for that
stuff, they are the worst offenders.

>
> >
> >> >
> >> > Is this why cops don't use their directionals, either?
> >>
> >> Sometimes.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > nate
> >> >
> >> > (just saw a DC cop traffic weaving and cutting other drivers off
> >> > without obvious emergency - i.e. speed not significantly higher than
> >> > traffic - this morning, at least four lane changes IMHO too close to
> >> > other traffic without signaling...)
> >>
> >> Granted, we don't know the reason, but what constitutes an obvious
> >> emergency? Should he have pulled up next to you, rolled down his window,
> >> and told you there's something going on? Sometimes speed not
> >> significantly
> >> higher than traffic is the only safe thing to do.
> >>
> >
> > So apparently every single cop I see on the road is responding to an
> > emergency 24/7. Tell you what, ride around with me for a day and I'll
> > give you $50 for every time you can point out a marked unit signaling
> > correctly. I'm guessing you would go home very disappointed.
>
> I'm not claiming that cops do crap just because they can. I'm offering
> reasons why they'd do it for a valid reason even though it seems like I'm
> using it as a blanket defence for every case. I just want people to think
> before the kneejerk.

I understand where you're coming from, but it sounds like we live in
two different worlds. I'm not jerking the knee or anything else for
that matter. Whenever I see a cop, I EXPECT him to pull some asshat
move because a cop driving in a safe, respectful manner is so rare that
I definitely notice it whenever it happens. We're talking 20+ over the
limit, no signals, tailgating, cutting people off, the whole nine.
Every day, every cop. Either that, or I live in some personal asshat
cop vortex that attracts them all to me. I really wish you could be
here so you could understand what I'm talking about. All of these guys
would definitely get tickets if they drove in a civilized area with
conscientious police.

nate

Even moe stupid cop tricks

In article .com>, N8N wrote:

> I understand where you're coming from, but it sounds like we live in
> two different worlds. I'm not jerking the knee or anything else for
> that matter. Whenever I see a cop, I EXPECT him to pull some asshat
> move because a cop driving in a safe, respectful manner is so rare that
> I definitely notice it whenever it happens. We're talking 20+ over the
> limit, no signals, tailgating, cutting people off, the whole nine.
> Every day, every cop. Either that, or I live in some personal asshat
> cop vortex that attracts them all to me. I really wish you could be
> here so you could understand what I'm talking about. All of these guys
> would definitely get tickets if they drove in a civilized area with
> conscientious police.

If you live in that vortex Nate, so do I. All the cops I see exceed the posted
speed limit. 99% fail to use their turn signal at least once in my observations
of them. The vast majority tailgate when blocked by slower drivers. Other violations
are sighting dependent. This is 24-7 behavior.