Downshifting Grinding noise
 

I have a '99 Civic (manual trans) with 68K miles. When I was driving on a
long trip this weekend, with a lot of stop and go traffic, my car started
to make a loud grinding sound and rattling when I would use the
transmission to slow down the car- either downshifting or taking my foot
off the gas. It would not make the sound when I used the brake to slow
down. Any ideas?

captainarwen wrote:
> I have a '99 Civic (manual trans) with 68K miles. When I was driving on a
> long trip this weekend, with a lot of stop and go traffic, my car started
> to make a loud grinding sound and rattling when I would use the
> transmission to slow down the car- either downshifting or taking my foot
> off the gas. It would not make the sound when I used the brake to slow
> down. Any ideas?
>
---------------------------

Your Manual Tranny Fluid is six years / 68,000 miles old. The brake
fluid in your clutch hydraulics is probably also overdue to be changed.
Those two items would seem to be a good place to start. What does your
Owner's Manual say?

'Curly'

captainarwen wrote:
> I have a '99 Civic (manual trans) with 68K miles. When I was driving on a
> long trip this weekend, with a lot of stop and go traffic, my car started
> to make a loud grinding sound and rattling when I would use the
> transmission to slow down the car- either downshifting or taking my foot
> off the gas. It would not make the sound when I used the brake to slow
> down. Any ideas?
>
as curly says, check lube and operation of clutch. if both are good,
your synchros are gone. $$$'s.

captainarwen wrote:
> I have a '99 Civic (manual trans) with 68K miles. When I was driving on a
> long trip this weekend, with a lot of stop and go traffic, my car started
> to make a loud grinding sound and rattling when I would use the
> transmission to slow down the car- either downshifting or taking my foot
> off the gas. It would not make the sound when I used the brake to slow
> down. Any ideas?
>


check the level of the fluid in the clutch master cylinder. ill bet its
low.

"SoCalMike" > wrote in message
...
> captainarwen wrote:
> > I have a '99 Civic (manual trans) with 68K miles. When I was driving on
a
> > long trip this weekend, with a lot of stop and go traffic, my car
started
> > to make a loud grinding sound and rattling when I would use the
> > transmission to slow down the car- either downshifting or taking my foot
> > off the gas. It would not make the sound when I used the brake to slow
> > down. Any ideas?
> >
>
>
> check the level of the fluid in the clutch master cylinder. ill bet its
> low.

I'm in the same boat. I went to the Honda dealership to get my clutch oil
changed (for the 2nd time since owning the car). Turns out, that my clutch
oil was low and the Honda mechanic recommends new master & slave cylinder
and a overhaul for the clutch master cylinder. After 245,000km of hard
driving, you'd think a simple oil change should do the job. Oh well..

The syncro is shot for third gear (only crunches when I'm racing..but I'm
sure it'll get worst). Considering that I have been ruff with the tranny,
would it be wise to also get a new clutch while their working on the clutch
master cylinder? So far, everything under the hood is still original (except
for spark plug and air filter) and this will be the first time It'll be
going for surgery because of failed parts...

I'm going to have to get used to the fact that the car isn't
indestructible...*sigh*

Pars
98 Civic Hatch

Pars wrote:
> "SoCalMike" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>captainarwen wrote:
>>
>>>I have a '99 Civic (manual trans) with 68K miles. When I was driving on
>
> a
>
>>>long trip this weekend, with a lot of stop and go traffic, my car
>
> started
>
>>>to make a loud grinding sound and rattling when I would use the
>>>transmission to slow down the car- either downshifting or taking my foot
>>>off the gas. It would not make the sound when I used the brake to slow
>>>down. Any ideas?
>>>
>>
>>
>>check the level of the fluid in the clutch master cylinder. ill bet its
>>low.
>
>
> I'm in the same boat. I went to the Honda dealership to get my clutch oil
> changed (for the 2nd time since owning the car). Turns out, that my clutch
> oil was low and the Honda mechanic recommends new master & slave cylinder
> and a overhaul for the clutch master cylinder. After 245,000km of hard
> driving, you'd think a simple oil change should do the job. Oh well..
>
> The syncro is shot for third gear (only crunches when I'm racing..but I'm
> sure it'll get worst). Considering that I have been ruff with the tranny,
> would it be wise to also get a new clutch while their working on the clutch
> master cylinder? So far, everything under the hood is still original (except
> for spark plug and air filter) and this will be the first time It'll be
> going for surgery because of failed parts...
>
> I'm going to have to get used to the fact that the car isn't
> indestructible...*sigh*
>
> Pars
> 98 Civic Hatch
>
>
this is where you can teach yourself to double-clutch effectively!
seriously, you can keep a shot synchro going indefinitely if you do.

Pars wrote:
> I'm in the same boat. I went to the Honda dealership to get my clutch oil
> changed (for the 2nd time since owning the car). Turns out, that my clutch
> oil was low and the Honda mechanic recommends new master & slave cylinder
> and a overhaul for the clutch master cylinder. After 245,000km of hard
> driving, you'd think a simple oil change should do the job. Oh well..

What the hell is an "overhaul for a clutch master cylinder"--especially
after you get a new one? Methinks you have the terminology wrong for
what the overhaul is on. The master cylinder is the thing your clutch
pedal is connected to--nowhere near the actual clutch. It's easy to
replace, as is the slave cylinder, which is attached to the tranny and
activates the clutch release. I just did both on my 94 Civic.

BTW, there's brake fluid in the clutch hydraulics, oil in your tranny.
Better hope there's no oil in your clutch... ;-)

> would it be wise to also get a new clutch while their working on the clutch
> master cylinder?

If whatever they're wanting to do the overhaul on involves removing the
tranny, have them inspect the clutch for wear and decide then. Tegger's
still on his original clutch at 400,000 km...

"Abeness" > wrote in message
...
> Pars wrote:
> > I'm in the same boat. I went to the Honda dealership to get my clutch
oil
> > changed (for the 2nd time since owning the car). Turns out, that my
clutch
> > oil was low and the Honda mechanic recommends new master & slave
cylinder
> > and a overhaul for the clutch master cylinder. After 245,000km of hard
> > driving, you'd think a simple oil change should do the job. Oh well..
>
> What the hell is an "overhaul for a clutch master cylinder"--especially
> after you get a new one? Methinks you have the terminology wrong for
> what the overhaul is on. The master cylinder is the thing your clutch
> pedal is connected to--nowhere near the actual clutch. It's easy to
> replace, as is the slave cylinder, which is attached to the tranny and
> activates the clutch release. I just did both on my 94 Civic.

The mechanic also said that the master and slave cylinder were leaking and
the clutch pedal was very stiff (but not stiff enough to hamper the lead in
my left foot).

>
> BTW, there's brake fluid in the clutch hydraulics, oil in your tranny.
> Better hope there's no oil in your clutch... ;-)

Yep, they charged me about $6 for the brake oil. The tranny oil was more
expensive at $21 for 3 Litres.

>
> > would it be wise to also get a new clutch while their working on the
clutch
> > master cylinder?
>
> If whatever they're wanting to do the overhaul on involves removing the
> tranny, have them inspect the clutch for wear and decide then. Tegger's
> still on his original clutch at 400,000 km...

If I wasn't aggressive with the tranny, I'm sure the thing would probably
would last forever. Considering that the engagement point for my clutch has
gone all the way down to the floor and switching into first or reverse is a
little tricky, something is not right. Also, the low engagement point isn't
doing my tranny any good, since it's more difficult to go all the way down
on the clutch when executing some fast shifting (which is a common
occurrence in my case).

Pars

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...

> >
> >
> > I'm in the same boat. I went to the Honda dealership to get my clutch
oil
> > changed (for the 2nd time since owning the car). Turns out, that my
clutch
> > oil was low and the Honda mechanic recommends new master & slave
cylinder
> > and a overhaul for the clutch master cylinder. After 245,000km of hard
> > driving, you'd think a simple oil change should do the job. Oh well..
> >
> > The syncro is shot for third gear (only crunches when I'm racing..but
I'm
> > sure it'll get worst). Considering that I have been ruff with the
tranny,
> > would it be wise to also get a new clutch while their working on the
clutch
> > master cylinder? So far, everything under the hood is still original
(except
> > for spark plug and air filter) and this will be the first time It'll be
> > going for surgery because of failed parts...
> >
> > I'm going to have to get used to the fact that the car isn't
> > indestructible...*sigh*
> >
> > Pars
> > 98 Civic Hatch
> >
> >
> this is where you can teach yourself to double-clutch effectively!
> seriously, you can keep a shot synchro going indefinitely if you do.
>

Yep, looks like I might have to become an expert at it. But for now, I'm
going to have to avoid drag races that requires 3rd gear. Downshifting from
5 to 3 is still smooth since I'm good at rev matching....so I can still
squeeze some fun out of 3rd. But once third is completely gone, I'm not
going to be a happy camper, since it's my favorite gear.

Pars

Pars wrote:
> The mechanic also said that the master and slave cylinder were leaking and
> the clutch pedal was very stiff (but not stiff enough to hamper the lead in
> my left foot).

Mine was feeling a bit weird when I replaced the master/slave cylinders.
and the master was leaking here as well. Dealer said the slave was
leaking too when I had the car inspeced prior to purchase, but I didn't
see any evidence of that myself.

>>If whatever they're wanting to do the overhaul on involves removing the
>>tranny, have them inspect the clutch for wear and decide then. Tegger's
>>still on his original clutch at 400,000 km...
>
>
> If I wasn't aggressive with the tranny, I'm sure the thing would probably
> would last forever. Considering that the engagement point for my clutch has
> gone all the way down to the floor and switching into first or reverse is a
> little tricky, something is not right.

Maybe not forever, as there is wear however you drive. The fact that you
have to push the pedal all the way to the floor to disengage the clutch
could merely be the result of the low fluid and failing cylinders.

Since the master and slave cylinders are so easy to replace--I'm
relatively new to automotive work, but am a pretty handy guy in
general--and since replacing them doesn't involve dropping the tranny,
I'd start with those and see how it feels after a pedal adjustment. The
job can be done in less than 2 hours. If you want to do it
yourself--really, it's easy--see my post "clutch master & slave cylinder
replacement notes (94 Civic EX)" (7/8/2005). Helpful to have a Helm
manual, too--an excellent investment.