Soft brake persists after Brake Fluid Flush.
 

Hello all,

Now that summer is here and temperatures are rising above 90 (in this
part of Maryland), I have been noticing a peculiar problem with my '92
Honda Accord. Especially on a hot day (though I am not sure about this
correlation) after the car's been driven around for a bit, the brake
pedals tend to get soft. Rather, at high speeds braking slows the car
down. . . but the application of a persistent pressure causes the pedal
to keep getting depressed without noticeable braking action. Pumping
the brake resumes braking, and then it goes soft again until one
releases and depresses the brake once more. The brake appears to work
better during the initial braking action, and then gets soft after it
has been depressed for a little while. There is no squealing,
clinking, or any kind of noise or vibration.

After reading these (very helpful) forums, I concluded that this may be
due to water/gas contamination in my brake line, or a leaky master
cylinder. I had the brake fluid flushed yesterday, and the entire
brake system was checked out. There was no apparent leaks anywhere. .
..and the brake fluid levels have always been constant. Today, I still
find the same soft brake pedal problem.

It is hard to get advice from car mechanics on this, because the
problem is moody and sometimes difficult to reproduce. The car starts
out fine in the morning. What do you guys suggest I do to fix this
problem?

Sincerely,

Subhamoy.

In article .com>,
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Now that summer is here and temperatures are rising above 90 (in this
> part of Maryland), I have been noticing a peculiar problem with my '92
> Honda Accord. Especially on a hot day (though I am not sure about this
> correlation) after the car's been driven around for a bit, the brake
> pedals tend to get soft. Rather, at high speeds braking slows the car
> down. . . but the application of a persistent pressure causes the pedal
> to keep getting depressed without noticeable braking action. Pumping
> the brake resumes braking, and then it goes soft again until one
> releases and depresses the brake once more. The brake appears to work
> better during the initial braking action, and then gets soft after it
> has been depressed for a little while. There is no squealing,
> clinking, or any kind of noise or vibration.
>
> After reading these (very helpful) forums, I concluded that this may be
> due to water/gas contamination in my brake line, or a leaky master
> cylinder. I had the brake fluid flushed yesterday, and the entire
> brake system was checked out. There was no apparent leaks anywhere. .
> .and the brake fluid levels have always been constant. Today, I still
> find the same soft brake pedal problem.
>
> It is hard to get advice from car mechanics on this, because the
> problem is moody and sometimes difficult to reproduce. The car starts
> out fine in the morning. What do you guys suggest I do to fix this
> problem?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Subhamoy.

Subhamoy,
You may be right. I suspect the fluid is contaminated or has broken down
or there may be air in the lines. Regardless, the best solution would be
to drain out all of the brake fluid and replace it with new fluid. If you
have never done it before--I advise you to take it to a mechanic that you
trust and have them do it. Mechanics have all of the tools and equipment
to make the job much easier and quicker. It's a messy job.
Jason

--
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Sounds like the problem I had with my 88 accord. Soft brakes when
everything got hot. It got so bad for me that I had to change the
master cylinder, and both wheel cylinders along with flush and bleeding
of the brake system.

But even with all that It didn't help things much. To me all honda's
feel this way. I now have an 2005 odyssey and the first thing I
noticed upon driving it was the soft brakes. Nothing like the old
accord but soft. I drove a number of Nissan's and every one of those
cars had brakes that would bring the car to a halt at the lightest
touch of the pedal.

On 10 Jun 2005 10:55:10 -0700, wrote:

>
>After reading these (very helpful) forums, I concluded that this may be
>due to water/gas contamination in my brake line, or a leaky master
>cylinder. I had the brake fluid flushed yesterday, and the entire
>brake system was checked out. There was no apparent leaks anywhere. .
>.and the brake fluid levels have always been constant. Today, I still
>find the same soft brake pedal problem.

I would have guessed:

80% probability: master cylinder
15% probability: contaminated brake fluid
5% probability: something else

You eliminated the easy one. I think you need to do the master
cylinder now.

Same thing happening with my Acura Vigor. It gets worse if I run the A/C, as
it probably heats things up much more in the engine bay. I will be changing
the master cylinder and the hoses also (as a precaution).

I would do the master cylinder myself, as it looks simple enough in the
helms book, but it's just too damn messy and I don't want to work in 90F
humid weather.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello all,
>
> Now that summer is here and temperatures are rising above 90 (in this
> part of Maryland), I have been noticing a peculiar problem with my '92
> Honda Accord. Especially on a hot day (though I am not sure about this
> correlation) after the car's been driven around for a bit, the brake
> pedals tend to get soft. Rather, at high speeds braking slows the car
> down. . . but the application of a persistent pressure causes the pedal
> to keep getting depressed without noticeable braking action. Pumping
> the brake resumes braking, and then it goes soft again until one
> releases and depresses the brake once more. The brake appears to work
> better during the initial braking action, and then gets soft after it
> has been depressed for a little while. There is no squealing,
> clinking, or any kind of noise or vibration.
>
> After reading these (very helpful) forums, I concluded that this may be
> due to water/gas contamination in my brake line, or a leaky master
> cylinder. I had the brake fluid flushed yesterday, and the entire
> brake system was checked out. There was no apparent leaks anywhere. .
> .and the brake fluid levels have always been constant. Today, I still
> find the same soft brake pedal problem.
>
> It is hard to get advice from car mechanics on this, because the
> problem is moody and sometimes difficult to reproduce. The car starts
> out fine in the morning. What do you guys suggest I do to fix this
> problem?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Subhamoy.
>

I should have mentioned in the previous post that the leak in the MC
is internal. You won't see any fluid on the garage floor.

On 10 Jun 2005 10:55:10 -0700, wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>Now that summer is here and temperatures are rising above 90 (in this
>part of Maryland), I have been noticing a peculiar problem with my '92
>Honda Accord. Especially on a hot day (though I am not sure about this
>correlation) after the car's been driven around for a bit, the brake
>pedals tend to get soft. Rather, at high speeds braking slows the car
>down. . . but the application of a persistent pressure causes the pedal
>to keep getting depressed without noticeable braking action. Pumping
>the brake resumes braking, and then it goes soft again until one
>releases and depresses the brake once more. The brake appears to work
>better during the initial braking action, and then gets soft after it
>has been depressed for a little while. There is no squealing,
>clinking, or any kind of noise or vibration.
>
>After reading these (very helpful) forums, I concluded that this may be
>due to water/gas contamination in my brake line, or a leaky master
>cylinder. I had the brake fluid flushed yesterday, and the entire
>brake system was checked out. There was no apparent leaks anywhere. .
>.and the brake fluid levels have always been constant. Today, I still
>find the same soft brake pedal problem.
>
>It is hard to get advice from car mechanics on this, because the
>problem is moody and sometimes difficult to reproduce. The car starts
>out fine in the morning. What do you guys suggest I do to fix this
>problem?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Subhamoy.

In article >,
Gordon McGrew > wrote:
>
>
>I should have mentioned in the previous post that the leak in the MC
>is internal. You won't see any fluid on the garage floor.

I agree. My wife's 92 Acura Legend had that problem and new master cylinder
fixed it.


--
Mike Iglesias Email:
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069

The symptoms you describe are of a failing power brake master cylinder.
I know as this has happened to me on my '89 and '93 Accords.

I strongly suggest you have this attended to ASAP, as brake failure
could be imminent. The valve inside the cylinder is deteriorating and
when it goes say goodbye to your brakes!

As for repeatabilty of the symptoms, don't worry, it will definitely be
getting worse and start occuring more frequently. The problem is, you
don't know when it will eventually fail and the results could be
disasterous.

If you don't have a reliable mechanic, I have some suggestions:
1. Honda dealer
2. Independent Honda mechanic (in the phone book)
3. Car Talk.com - MechanXfiles - database of over 16,000 mechanics,
recommended by members - http://www.cartalk.com/content/mechx/
4. Helm service manual if you feel capable of doing it yourself?

Either way, don't wait, your '92 Accord is an accident waiting to
happen!

On 10 Jun 2005 13:05:03 -0700, "chris24ali" > wrote:

>Sounds like the problem I had with my 88 accord. Soft brakes when
>everything got hot. It got so bad for me that I had to change the
>master cylinder, and both wheel cylinders along with flush and bleeding
>of the brake system.

When you say hot, do you mean from heavy braking such as going down
hills? Or do you mean city driving on a hot summer day?

The typical symptom of MC failure (in Hondas at least) is a hot summer
day, sitting at a stop light and suddenly the pedal sinks to the
floor. Pump it once or twice and it may be fine for a while.

Softness after heavy use sounds like the brake fluid is boiling due to
contamination, a mechanical problem or simple over use. It could also
be caused by a frozen caliper or similar problem which causes the
brake to be always applied. This is easy to recognize because one (or
more) wheels will be hot as a branding iron, even though you haven't
been braking much at all.

>But even with all that It didn't help things much. To me all honda's
>feel this way. I now have an 2005 odyssey and the first thing I
>noticed upon driving it was the soft brakes. Nothing like the old
>accord but soft. I drove a number of Nissan's and every one of those
>cars had brakes that would bring the car to a halt at the lightest
>touch of the pedal.

I would consider that to be over-boosted, but you can probably adapt
to anything. If you are used to one, the other is going to feel
wrong.

Definately hot summer day driving in the big city. I remember flushing
the system and finding fluid that was water like and dirty as hell.
I'm sure I didn't get out all and probably ended up contaminating the
new fluid.