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-   -   Rear Main Seal (http://www.autobanter.com/showthread.php?t=13606)

Kevin November 22nd 04 04:48 PM

Rear Main Seal
 
Hi all

I have a 1600dp, with about 3000miles on the clock and is about 10 months
old. It doesn't drip a drop, well at least not in my carport. I do however
have a mean clutch shudder, it's not the Bowden tube, I have replaced it and
set the correct "dip".

I suspect the clutch or pressure plate, as I've discovered it was the same
one that was on the original oil leaking engine. I want to remove the engine
and replace the clutch but get the whole system balanced, the clutch,
pressure plate and flywheel, so that every thing is matting probably. My
question is that, I'll have to remove the flywheel for this, will I have to
replace the rear main seal when I do? It's not leaking and is less than a
year old, I'm not a believer in fixing something that isn't broken. Could
removing the flywheel damage the seal?

Thanks in advance
Regards
Kevin





Bill Spiliotopoulos November 22nd 04 05:13 PM

Removing the flywheel won't damage the seal, so you can use it again.
Replacing the pressure plate isn't necessary IMO, if it is not worn. Only
the friction disk needs to be replaced if it is contaminated with oil.
Clean the flywheel and pressure plate with a degreaser to remove eny traces
of oil, and unpolish the surfaces with abrasive paper.
Check that the O-ring inside the flywheel was installed properly and that it
was in good condition. This might be leaking, and oil that leaks past this
o-ring eventually reaches the friction disk. This O-ring (graphite coated)
usually comes allready damaged in many engine gasket sets, so you have to
buy 2-3 sets to get a good ring. Oil it slightly before installation. This
ring needs to be replaced every time you reinstall the flywheel.

Bill,
'67 Bug.


"Kevin" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all
>
> I have a 1600dp, with about 3000miles on the clock and is about 10 months
> old. It doesn't drip a drop, well at least not in my carport. I do however
> have a mean clutch shudder, it's not the Bowden tube, I have replaced it
> and
> set the correct "dip".
>
> I suspect the clutch or pressure plate, as I've discovered it was the same
> one that was on the original oil leaking engine. I want to remove the
> engine
> and replace the clutch but get the whole system balanced, the clutch,
> pressure plate and flywheel, so that every thing is matting probably. My
> question is that, I'll have to remove the flywheel for this, will I have
> to
> replace the rear main seal when I do? It's not leaking and is less than a
> year old, I'm not a believer in fixing something that isn't broken. Could
> removing the flywheel damage the seal?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Regards
> Kevin
>
>
>
>




Speedy Jim November 22nd 04 05:14 PM

Kevin wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I have a 1600dp, with about 3000miles on the clock and is about 10 months
> old. It doesn't drip a drop, well at least not in my carport. I do however
> have a mean clutch shudder, it's not the Bowden tube, I have replaced it and
> set the correct "dip".
>
> I suspect the clutch or pressure plate, as I've discovered it was the same
> one that was on the original oil leaking engine. I want to remove the engine
> and replace the clutch but get the whole system balanced, the clutch,
> pressure plate and flywheel, so that every thing is matting probably. My
> question is that, I'll have to remove the flywheel for this, will I have to
> replace the rear main seal when I do? It's not leaking and is less than a
> year old, I'm not a believer in fixing something that isn't broken. Could
> removing the flywheel damage the seal?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Regards
> Kevin
>


"Front" seal. I would be OK with re-using it. More likely to be
damaged is the O-ring seal inside the flywheel; definitely replace
that. And double check the crank endplay afterward.

Before you go thru all this bother, check the tranny mounts;
a broken/worn mount will cause clutch chatter.

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/



John Willis November 22nd 04 05:19 PM

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:48:01 +0200, "Kevin" >
scribbled this interesting note:

>Hi all
>
>I have a 1600dp, with about 3000miles on the clock and is about 10 months
>old. It doesn't drip a drop, well at least not in my carport. I do however
>have a mean clutch shudder, it's not the Bowden tube, I have replaced it and
>set the correct "dip".
>
>I suspect the clutch or pressure plate, as I've discovered it was the same
>one that was on the original oil leaking engine. I want to remove the engine
>and replace the clutch but get the whole system balanced, the clutch,
>pressure plate and flywheel, so that every thing is matting probably. My
>question is that, I'll have to remove the flywheel for this, will I have to
>replace the rear main seal when I do? It's not leaking and is less than a
>year old, I'm not a believer in fixing something that isn't broken. Could
>removing the flywheel damage the seal?
>
>Thanks in advance
>Regards
>Kevin


Let me get this straight...

Someone built or rebuilt an engine yet used the same damaged clutch
plate upon installation? No offense, but what else was reused that
shouldn't have been?

To answer your question, if the main oil seal (which is on the front
of the engine as it is installed in the car) isn't leaking, removal
and reinstallation of the flywheel should not cause any damage.

Balancing the pressure plate, clutch plate, and flywheel as a unit is
good, but when the engine was being worked on, those, as well as the
crank and pulley should have been balanced as a unit if you are
concerned about balancing issues.

But really, why go to the trouble of building an engine and then try
to save a few pennies by not using a new clutch? It isn't as if they
are all that expensive. As a percentage of the cost of doing a proper
build, it is very, very little. This is becoming my mantra these
days...You have to know which pennies to pinch!:~)

Look he
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=bo...aol.com&rnum=5

or even better, look he

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=bo...ol.com&rnum=31

Hope this helps...


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

MIC November 22nd 04 05:31 PM

> More likely to be
> damaged is the O-ring seal inside the flywheel; definitely replace
> that. And double check the crank endplay afterward.


Hello Jim (and others)
I just had my flywheel of for replace the main seal. I did not notice the
O-ring you talk about. Where should it be? On the flywheel?

The engine is still out... :-)
Bye from Denmark....Michael
(1303 from 1974)


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John Willis November 22nd 04 05:41 PM

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:31:12 +0100, "MIC" >
scribbled this interesting note:

>> More likely to be
>> damaged is the O-ring seal inside the flywheel; definitely replace
>> that. And double check the crank endplay afterward.

>
>Hello Jim (and others)
>I just had my flywheel of for replace the main seal. I did not notice the
>O-ring you talk about. Where should it be? On the flywheel?


Inside. In a machined in groove. Take a peak.
--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Speedy Jim November 22nd 04 05:47 PM

MIC wrote:

>> More likely to be
>> damaged is the O-ring seal inside the flywheel; definitely replace
>> that. And double check the crank endplay afterward.

>
>
> Hello Jim (and others)
> I just had my flywheel of for replace the main seal. I did not notice the
> O-ring you talk about. Where should it be? On the flywheel?
>
> The engine is still out... :-)
> Bye from Denmark....Michael
> (1303 from 1974)


Beginning with the 1300cc engine, a groove was cut *inside* the
hub of the flywheel. An O-Ring slips in the groove and seals the
flywheel hub to the crankshaft. On earlier engines, sealing was
done with paper or metal gaskets between flywheel and crank.

As Bill noted, the O-Ring is often received damaged or gets damaged
when the flywheel is installed on the crank. The O-Ring has to be
installed with care. Use of lubricant will help prevent distortion.

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Kevin November 22nd 04 08:43 PM


"John Willis" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:48:01 +0200, "Kevin" >
> scribbled this interesting note:
>
> >Hi all
> >
> >I have a 1600dp, with about 3000miles on the clock and is about 10 months
> >old. It doesn't drip a drop, well at least not in my carport. I do

however
> >have a mean clutch shudder, it's not the Bowden tube, I have replaced it

and
> >set the correct "dip".
> >
> >I suspect the clutch or pressure plate, as I've discovered it was the

same
> >one that was on the original oil leaking engine. I want to remove the

engine
> >and replace the clutch but get the whole system balanced, the clutch,
> >pressure plate and flywheel, so that every thing is matting probably. My
> >question is that, I'll have to remove the flywheel for this, will I have

to
> >replace the rear main seal when I do? It's not leaking and is less than a
> >year old, I'm not a believer in fixing something that isn't broken. Could
> >removing the flywheel damage the seal?
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >Regards
> >Kevin

>
> Let me get this straight...
>
> Someone built or rebuilt an engine yet used the same damaged clutch
> plate upon installation? No offense, but what else was reused that
> shouldn't have been?
>
> To answer your question, if the main oil seal (which is on the front
> of the engine as it is installed in the car) isn't leaking, removal
> and reinstallation of the flywheel should not cause any damage.
>
> Balancing the pressure plate, clutch plate, and flywheel as a unit is
> good, but when the engine was being worked on, those, as well as the
> crank and pulley should have been balanced as a unit if you are
> concerned about balancing issues.
>
> But really, why go to the trouble of building an engine and then try
> to save a few pennies by not using a new clutch? It isn't as if they
> are all that expensive. As a percentage of the cost of doing a proper
> build, it is very, very little. This is becoming my mantra these
> days...You have to know which pennies to pinch!:~)
>
> Look he
>

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=bo...roup=rec.au t
os.makers.vw.aircooled&selm=20000223002540.19135.0 0001175%40ng-bg1.aol.com&r
num=5
>
> or even better, look he
>
>

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=bo...=en&lr=&gro u
p=rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled&selm=1998102906120 0.06767.00000910%40ng137.a
ol.com&rnum=31
>
> Hope this helps...
>
>
> --
> John Willis
> (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)


Thanks guys for all the quick Reponses. I have checked tranny mounts, they
are fine that's why I suspect the clutch plate. I will replace the o-ring.

I don't take offense it wasn't me who rebuilt it, nor knew what was being
reused. The spark plugs, points, condenser and the clutch plate to my
knowledge were things that were reused; I was a bit disappointed at this but
it was a really cheap deal and while my original single port lies in wait
for a rebuild by my hands; this engine will have to do. I agree replace
these maintenance parts while spending on the engine, but I only discovered
it a while after the engine had been installed when I couldn't find my
clutch plate I realised it was on the engine. The plugs and leads were also
reused, but have since been replaced along with pitted points and a
maintenance that I didn't quite trust.

Thanks for all the responses
Regards
Kevin



Hal November 23rd 04 05:57 AM

<snip>

> pressure plate and flywheel, so that every thing is matting probably. My
> question is that, I'll have to remove the flywheel for this, will I have to
> replace the rear main seal when I do? It's not leaking and is less than a
> year old, I'm not a believer in fixing something that isn't broken. Could
> removing the flywheel damage the seal?


Given the relatively minor cost of the front main seal, and the fact
that you have to remove the engine, clutch, and flywheel to replace
it, wouldn't you just kick yourself if you get it back together with
the old seal, get it running perfectly, and then discover a dribble
from the front of the engine?

The seal is like 5 bucks..replace it while the opportunity presents
itself and double-check your endplay while you're at it.

My 2 cents worth...good luck with it.

Chris


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