Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued
 

Hi there,

So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).

Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)

My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.

I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
I replaced them.

Here are my theories:

1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
belt replacement.

2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
belt.

There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
sure what to believe.

How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
degrees when you adjust it manually.

The site I saw this on was:

http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html

I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
back from the group on opinions of this action.

3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.

How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
I reset it again?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
about a month ago.

Thanks
t

Also, my PCV valve was replaced less than 1 month ago, with and OEM valve
from Honda.

disallow wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
> or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
> up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).
>
> Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
> fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
> gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
> not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
> problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
> last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)
>
> My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
> bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
> sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
> throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
> low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.
>
> I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
> cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
> but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
> I replaced them.
>
> Here are my theories:
>
> 1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
> carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
> marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
> I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
> belt replacement.
>
> 2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
> ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
> belt.
>
> There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
> when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
> all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
> say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
> sure what to believe.
>
> How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
> own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
> would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
> mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
> degrees when you adjust it manually.
>
> The site I saw this on was:
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>
> I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
> back from the group on opinions of this action.
>
> 3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
> to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
> reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.
>
> How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
> F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
> I reset it again?
>
> Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
> around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
> about a month ago.
>
> Thanks
> t
>

if the belt is off a tooth at the crank, you'll have a real rough engine
& chronic lack of power. if it's off a tooth at the cam [half the angle
of the crank] it'll still be rough and you'll still be in a poor power zone.

check the timing, although if you did not take the distributor off, and
the belt's set right, there's no reason timing should have changed.

you mention gas smelling different - imo, it's /much/ more likely you
got a bad tank of gas that's causing the problem. it's not unknown for
fuel deliveries to get messed up. maybe you've got stuff that's got a
little diesel in it - that'll increase your consumption. also, don't
forget fuel formulations differ with time of year. if you've had the
car idle for a few weeks sorting out the belt, you could still have had
the last of the summer formula in the tank and are now transitioning to
winter formula.

plugs? sure - change them if you have any doubts. always keep a set of
[working] old ones for comparison purposes. you could swap between them
& see if it makes a difference. if so, you know what to do.

if you want to reset the ecu, removal of one of the fuses will do the
job - not sure which one for your model, but keep it out for ~20 seconds.

honestly, i think you'd notice if the belt was out. the effects are
substantial.

"jim beam" > wrote
snip
> plugs? sure - change them if you have any doubts. always keep
a set of
> [working] old ones for comparison purposes. you could swap
between them
> & see if it makes a difference. if so, you know what to do.

Aside:
Funny, but this past year on my 91 Civic I replaced a set of
platinum plugs and the O2 sensor. The replacement was pre-emptive
maintenance, rather than a repair, as all parts seemed to be
working well enough. I couldn't throw the old parts away, though.
They had some life left in them, and I have a philosophy of not
throwing away anything that works. Then again, I couldn't think
of why I might want to put them back in.

The above justifies well always holding onto one set of working
old parts.

Disallow (t) --
I forget: Did you check for vacuum leaks?
Checking timing tip: Ebay has some good deals on timing lights.
Last year, always trying to learn more, I went shopping for one.
I ended up getting an old, used Craftsman for $15 at a pawn shop.
Works fine, and I have the peace of mind knowing my car's timing
is correct. As folks here advised then, one does not need
anything fancy for a timing light. Of course, the DIYer probably
uses it once a year at the very most, but still, for probably
under $20 with a little shopping around, maybe it's worth it.

My 92 engine timing was 1 tooth off. It ran smoothly, just drank extra
gas and had poor high rpm power.
If you can't adjust the timing to spec, the culprit is bad timing belt
installation.

disallow wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
> or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
> up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).
>
> Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
> fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
> gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
> not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
> problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
> last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)
>
> My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
> bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
> sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
> throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
> low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.
>
> I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
> cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
> but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
> I replaced them.
>
> Here are my theories:
>
> 1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
> carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
> marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
> I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
> belt replacement.
>
> 2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
> ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
> belt.
>
> There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
> when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
> all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
> say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
> sure what to believe.
>
> How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
> own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
> would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
> mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
> degrees when you adjust it manually.
>
> The site I saw this on was:
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>
> I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
> back from the group on opinions of this action.
>
> 3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
> to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
> reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.
>
> How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
> F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
> I reset it again?
>
> Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
> around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
> about a month ago.
>
> Thanks
> t

My 92 engine timing was 1 tooth off. It ran smoothly, just drank extra
gas and had poor high rpm power.
If you can't adjust the timing to spec, the culprit is bad timing belt
installation.

disallow wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
> or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
> up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).
>
> Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
> fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
> gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
> not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
> problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
> last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)
>
> My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
> bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
> sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
> throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
> low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.
>
> I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
> cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
> but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
> I replaced them.
>
> Here are my theories:
>
> 1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
> carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
> marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
> I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
> belt replacement.
>
> 2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
> ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
> belt.
>
> There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
> when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
> all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
> say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
> sure what to believe.
>
> How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
> own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
> would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
> mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
> degrees when you adjust it manually.
>
> The site I saw this on was:
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>
> I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
> back from the group on opinions of this action.
>
> 3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
> to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
> reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.
>
> How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
> F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
> I reset it again?
>
> Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
> around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
> about a month ago.
>
> Thanks
> t