Latest dope on R12 to R134 conversions - experience?
 

I have a license for buying R12 but I am considering changing over my A2
with the retrofit kit.

Obviously, prudence says to change the receiver-dryer and remove and flush
the system for a perfect changeover perhaps using the PAG oil BUT:

I spoke to a local discount auto parts manager who said "last year I topped
up with a can of R12 but this year in one of my old cars I simply used the
retro-fit kit and the A/C works fine." He did not change anything. (as the
kit says is not necessary) I have read failures on compressors without
doing a complete changeover (new receiver/dryer and flushing changing oil)

The retrofit kit contains Ester oil <spelling?> that is more compatible with
the R12 oil.

Has ANYONE, long term, used the retrofit kit only WITHOUT changing the
receiving/dryer and flushing, just using the kit with NO problems?

Harry

"Harry" > wrote:


>Has ANYONE, long term, used the retrofit kit only WITHOUT changing the
>receiving/dryer and flushing, just using the kit with NO problems?


I did it three years ago with a Castrol kit I got at a local store.

Runs perfect, no problems.

Should work fine. We used to go through all that bull. Lately though we just
change the Rec. Drier & add R134a. They said for years that the oils where
not compatible. And back then that was true. This doesn't apply to the newer
oils that are avail. today. Keep in mind R134a or equiv. will never cool
aswell as R12 in an R12 system. Also be careful about using any of the
aftermarket gases as some are actually propane. BOOM!!


"Harry" > wrote in message
...
>I have a license for buying R12 but I am considering changing over my A2
>with the retrofit kit.
>
> Obviously, prudence says to change the receiver-dryer and remove and flush
> the system for a perfect changeover perhaps using the PAG oil BUT:
>
> I spoke to a local discount auto parts manager who said "last year I
> topped up with a can of R12 but this year in one of my old cars I simply
> used the retro-fit kit and the A/C works fine." He did not change
> anything. (as the kit says is not necessary) I have read failures on
> compressors without doing a complete changeover (new receiver/dryer and
> flushing changing oil)
>
> The retrofit kit contains Ester oil <spelling?> that is more compatible
> with the R12 oil.
>
> Has ANYONE, long term, used the retrofit kit only WITHOUT changing the
> receiving/dryer and flushing, just using the kit with NO problems?
>
> Harry
>

I changed my Jetta over to R-134 and changed out nothing in the system - it
was so damn cold it would run you out of there, and I never had a failure
while I had the car (5 years)
-Ken
"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
...
> Should work fine. We used to go through all that bull. Lately though we
> just change the Rec. Drier & add R134a. They said for years that the oils
> where not compatible. And back then that was true. This doesn't apply to
> the newer oils that are avail. today. Keep in mind R134a or equiv. will
> never cool aswell as R12 in an R12 system. Also be careful about using any
> of the aftermarket gases as some are actually propane. BOOM!!
>
>
> "Harry" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have a license for buying R12 but I am considering changing over my A2
>>with the retrofit kit.
>>
>> Obviously, prudence says to change the receiver-dryer and remove and
>> flush the system for a perfect changeover perhaps using the PAG oil BUT:
>>
>> I spoke to a local discount auto parts manager who said "last year I
>> topped up with a can of R12 but this year in one of my old cars I simply
>> used the retro-fit kit and the A/C works fine." He did not change
>> anything. (as the kit says is not necessary) I have read failures on
>> compressors without doing a complete changeover (new receiver/dryer and
>> flushing changing oil)
>>
>> The retrofit kit contains Ester oil <spelling?> that is more compatible
>> with the R12 oil.
>>
>> Has ANYONE, long term, used the retrofit kit only WITHOUT changing the
>> receiving/dryer and flushing, just using the kit with NO problems?
>>
>> Harry
>>
>
>

Yes it will be cold but it will never be as cold as r12 in an R12 system.

The only reason a system would need a change over to R134A is if something
failed (ie: a leak). Anytime an A/C system is exposed to outside air for
anything more than 30mins or so you MUST replace the Receiver Dryer. Also
there has to be other parts replaced to fix the concern otherwise it was
filled illegally.


"VW FREAK" > wrote in message
m...
>I changed my Jetta over to R-134 and changed out nothing in the system - it
>was so damn cold it would run you out of there, and I never had a failure
>while I had the car (5 years)
> -Ken
> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Should work fine. We used to go through all that bull. Lately though we
>> just change the Rec. Drier & add R134a. They said for years that the oils
>> where not compatible. And back then that was true. This doesn't apply to
>> the newer oils that are avail. today. Keep in mind R134a or equiv. will
>> never cool aswell as R12 in an R12 system. Also be careful about using
>> any of the aftermarket gases as some are actually propane. BOOM!!
>>
>>
>> "Harry" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I have a license for buying R12 but I am considering changing over my A2
>>>with the retrofit kit.
>>>
>>> Obviously, prudence says to change the receiver-dryer and remove and
>>> flush the system for a perfect changeover perhaps using the PAG oil BUT:
>>>
>>> I spoke to a local discount auto parts manager who said "last year I
>>> topped up with a can of R12 but this year in one of my old cars I simply
>>> used the retro-fit kit and the A/C works fine." He did not change
>>> anything. (as the kit says is not necessary) I have read failures on
>>> compressors without doing a complete changeover (new receiver/dryer and
>>> flushing changing oil)
>>>
>>> The retrofit kit contains Ester oil <spelling?> that is more compatible
>>> with the R12 oil.
>>>
>>> Has ANYONE, long term, used the retrofit kit only WITHOUT changing the
>>> receiving/dryer and flushing, just using the kit with NO problems?
>>>
>>> Harry
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

filled illegally?
I dispute that.
there is no license required to by r134a- they have it at the parts store.

i repeat, I replaced NO components on my car and it worked perfectly for as
long as I had it, and it would "snow" out the vents it got so cold- I had to
turn the temp up on the lowest fan setting cause I was getting goose bumps
in the SUMMER.


"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
.. .
> Yes it will be cold but it will never be as cold as r12 in an R12 system.
>
> The only reason a system would need a change over to R134A is if something
> failed (ie: a leak). Anytime an A/C system is exposed to outside air for
> anything more than 30mins or so you MUST replace the Receiver Dryer. Also
> there has to be other parts replaced to fix the concern otherwise it was
> filled illegally.
>
>
> "VW FREAK" > wrote in message
> m...
>>I changed my Jetta over to R-134 and changed out nothing in the system -
>>it was so damn cold it would run you out of there, and I never had a
>>failure while I had the car (5 years)
>> -Ken
>> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Should work fine. We used to go through all that bull. Lately though we
>>> just change the Rec. Drier & add R134a. They said for years that the
>>> oils where not compatible. And back then that was true. This doesn't
>>> apply to the newer oils that are avail. today. Keep in mind R134a or
>>> equiv. will never cool aswell as R12 in an R12 system. Also be careful
>>> about using any of the aftermarket gases as some are actually propane.
>>> BOOM!!
>>>
>>>
>>> "Harry" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>I have a license for buying R12 but I am considering changing over my A2
>>>>with the retrofit kit.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, prudence says to change the receiver-dryer and remove and
>>>> flush the system for a perfect changeover perhaps using the PAG oil
>>>> BUT:
>>>>
>>>> I spoke to a local discount auto parts manager who said "last year I
>>>> topped up with a can of R12 but this year in one of my old cars I
>>>> simply used the retro-fit kit and the A/C works fine." He did not
>>>> change anything. (as the kit says is not necessary) I have read
>>>> failures on compressors without doing a complete changeover (new
>>>> receiver/dryer and flushing changing oil)
>>>>
>>>> The retrofit kit contains Ester oil <spelling?> that is more compatible
>>>> with the R12 oil.
>>>>
>>>> Has ANYONE, long term, used the retrofit kit only WITHOUT changing the
>>>> receiving/dryer and flushing, just using the kit with NO problems?
>>>>
>>>> Harry
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

That's funny. "It would snow out the vents". Considering the evap. would
freeze up at 0C & stop working. LOL. If your in the states I would believe
it as there are not many laws governing the purchase of refrigerants. Don't
seem to care about the environment. Most techs. aren't even licensed.

There may be no license. required to purchase the refrigerant but I know for
a fact that it is still illegal under EPA guidelines to fill a leaking
refrigerant system with ANY kind of refrigerant. Also many of the
aftermarket R134A replacements that you can purchase from local parts stores
are not actually R134A, many of them are actually propane as to get around
laws regarding these chemicals. Propane makes a great refrigerant but if you
get into an accident BOOM.


"VW FREAK" > wrote in message
om...
> filled illegally?
> I dispute that.
> there is no license required to by r134a- they have it at the parts store.
>
> i repeat, I replaced NO components on my car and it worked perfectly for
> as long as I had it, and it would "snow" out the vents it got so cold- I
> had to turn the temp up on the lowest fan setting cause I was getting
> goose bumps in the SUMMER.
>
>
> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Yes it will be cold but it will never be as cold as r12 in an R12 system.
>>
>> The only reason a system would need a change over to R134A is if
>> something failed (ie: a leak). Anytime an A/C system is exposed to
>> outside air for anything more than 30mins or so you MUST replace the
>> Receiver Dryer. Also there has to be other parts replaced to fix the
>> concern otherwise it was filled illegally.
>>
>>
>> "VW FREAK" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>>I changed my Jetta over to R-134 and changed out nothing in the system -
>>>it was so damn cold it would run you out of there, and I never had a
>>>failure while I had the car (5 years)
>>> -Ken
>>> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Should work fine. We used to go through all that bull. Lately though we
>>>> just change the Rec. Drier & add R134a. They said for years that the
>>>> oils where not compatible. And back then that was true. This doesn't
>>>> apply to the newer oils that are avail. today. Keep in mind R134a or
>>>> equiv. will never cool aswell as R12 in an R12 system. Also be careful
>>>> about using any of the aftermarket gases as some are actually propane.
>>>> BOOM!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Harry" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>I have a license for buying R12 but I am considering changing over my
>>>>>A2 with the retrofit kit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, prudence says to change the receiver-dryer and remove and
>>>>> flush the system for a perfect changeover perhaps using the PAG oil
>>>>> BUT:
>>>>>
>>>>> I spoke to a local discount auto parts manager who said "last year I
>>>>> topped up with a can of R12 but this year in one of my old cars I
>>>>> simply used the retro-fit kit and the A/C works fine." He did not
>>>>> change anything. (as the kit says is not necessary) I have read
>>>>> failures on compressors without doing a complete changeover (new
>>>>> receiver/dryer and flushing changing oil)
>>>>>
>>>>> The retrofit kit contains Ester oil <spelling?> that is more
>>>>> compatible with the R12 oil.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has ANYONE, long term, used the retrofit kit only WITHOUT changing the
>>>>> receiving/dryer and flushing, just using the kit with NO problems?
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

CanadianCray wrote:
>
> That's funny. "It would snow out the vents". Considering the evap. would
> freeze up at 0C & stop working. LOL. If your in the states I would believe
> it as there are not many laws governing the purchase of refrigerants. Don't
> seem to care about the environment. Most techs. aren't even licensed.
>
> There may be no license. required to purchase the refrigerant but I know for
> a fact that it is still illegal under EPA guidelines to fill a leaking
> refrigerant system with ANY kind of refrigerant. Also many of the
> aftermarket R134A replacements that you can purchase from local parts stores
> are not actually R134A, many of them are actually propane as to get around
> laws regarding these chemicals. Propane makes a great refrigerant but if you
> get into an accident BOOM.

Perhaps you have your R's mixed up, Propane (and a variety of other
flamable and non-flamable gasses) were sold as R12 replacements, NOT as
R134a replacements. R134a can be purchased without a license in the US.

No I don't have my R's mixed up. I am a licensed Technician to work with
refrigerants. There are a couple of companies marketing them as R134x which
is still propane. As I also said I understand that R134a can be purchased
without a lic. in the US. It however can't be used in a car with a known
leak. If it is & you are caught the person could be subject to a large fine.


"Randolph" > wrote in message
...
>
> CanadianCray wrote:
>>
>> That's funny. "It would snow out the vents". Considering the evap. would
>> freeze up at 0C & stop working. LOL. If your in the states I would
>> believe
>> it as there are not many laws governing the purchase of refrigerants.
>> Don't
>> seem to care about the environment. Most techs. aren't even licensed.
>>
>> There may be no license. required to purchase the refrigerant but I know
>> for
>> a fact that it is still illegal under EPA guidelines to fill a leaking
>> refrigerant system with ANY kind of refrigerant. Also many of the
>> aftermarket R134A replacements that you can purchase from local parts
>> stores
>> are not actually R134A, many of them are actually propane as to get
>> around
>> laws regarding these chemicals. Propane makes a great refrigerant but if
>> you
>> get into an accident BOOM.
>
> Perhaps you have your R's mixed up, Propane (and a variety of other
> flamable and non-flamable gasses) were sold as R12 replacements, NOT as
> R134a replacements. R134a can be purchased without a license in the US.

who said my car was leaking? not me brother.

it was definatley snowing or something- some kind of precipitation was
definatley coming out the vents of the car, perhaps I dont know the
technician term for it. coldest damn a/c I have ever had.

-Ken



"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
.. .
> No I don't have my R's mixed up. I am a licensed Technician to work with
> refrigerants. There are a couple of companies marketing them as R134x
> which is still propane. As I also said I understand that R134a can be
> purchased without a lic. in the US. It however can't be used in a car with
> a known leak. If it is & you are caught the person could be subject to a
> large fine.
>
>
> "Randolph" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> CanadianCray wrote:
>>>
>>> That's funny. "It would snow out the vents". Considering the evap. would
>>> freeze up at 0C & stop working. LOL. If your in the states I would
>>> believe
>>> it as there are not many laws governing the purchase of refrigerants.
>>> Don't
>>> seem to care about the environment. Most techs. aren't even licensed.
>>>
>>> There may be no license. required to purchase the refrigerant but I know
>>> for
>>> a fact that it is still illegal under EPA guidelines to fill a leaking
>>> refrigerant system with ANY kind of refrigerant. Also many of the
>>> aftermarket R134A replacements that you can purchase from local parts
>>> stores
>>> are not actually R134A, many of them are actually propane as to get
>>> around
>>> laws regarding these chemicals. Propane makes a great refrigerant but if
>>> you
>>> get into an accident BOOM.
>>
>> Perhaps you have your R's mixed up, Propane (and a variety of other
>> flamable and non-flamable gasses) were sold as R12 replacements, NOT as
>> R134a replacements. R134a can be purchased without a license in the US.
>
>