Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
bore and put in a metal liner.
Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
block or the entire engine!

Any advice would be appreciated
Cords

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

Cords wrote:
> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
> bore and put in a metal liner.
> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
> block or the entire engine!
>
> Any advice would be appreciated
> Cords

I would have thought that the replacement option would be easier and
just as cost effective. I would guess that the piston and maybe the
con-rod is damaged too.

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

wrote:
> Cords wrote:
> > I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
> > 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
> > spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
> > head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
> > bore and put in a metal liner.
> > Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
> > I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
> > block or the entire engine!
> >
> > Any advice would be appreciated
> > Cords
>
> I would have thought that the replacement option would be easier and
> just as cost effective. I would guess that the piston and maybe the
> con-rod is damaged too.

Thanks...will follow up on the rod and piston!

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Cords wrote:
>> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
>> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
>> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
>> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
>> bore and put in a metal liner.
>> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
>> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
>> block or the entire engine!
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated
>> Cords
>
> I would have thought that the replacement option would be easier and
> just as cost effective. I would guess that the piston and maybe the
> con-rod is damaged too.
>

Not sure about the Alusil 4.4, but the Nikasil 4.0 can not be rebored /
sleeved because there is insufficient clearance to the oil / waterways in
the block.

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

Cords wrote:
> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
> bore and put in a metal liner.
> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
> block or the entire engine!

You have a right to demand the car be returned to the same condition as
you brought it in, plus the work you paid them to perform. Iron
sleeving one of 8 alusil bores is NOT making you whole. You need a new
or factory reman engine, or a salvage engine of equal or lower miles,
and a guarantee with whatever they install. Do not let them sleeve your
motor.
While the piston is likely peened a little, the rod is probably OK.
But the combustion chamber in the head is also suspect.
A lot depends on the miles on your engine as to what might be a fair
replacement, but I'd assume the factory engine is good for 200K miles.
If you have had that car for 9 model years it is a reasonable assumption
that you intend to keep it for several more years.
It sounds to me like they are trying to not file an insurance
claim. They carry insurance for just this sort of thing, but of course
their claim history affects their rates and future insurability.

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

Rex B wrote:
> Cords wrote:
> > I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
> > 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
> > spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
> > head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
> > bore and put in a metal liner.
> > Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
> > I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
> > block or the entire engine!
>
> You have a right to demand the car be returned to the same condition as
> you brought it in, plus the work you paid them to perform. Iron
> sleeving one of 8 alusil bores is NOT making you whole. You need a new
> or factory reman engine, or a salvage engine of equal or lower miles,
> and a guarantee with whatever they install. Do not let them sleeve your
> motor.
> While the piston is likely peened a little, the rod is probably OK.
> But the combustion chamber in the head is also suspect.
> A lot depends on the miles on your engine as to what might be a fair
> replacement, but I'd assume the factory engine is good for 200K miles.
> If you have had that car for 9 model years it is a reasonable assumption
> that you intend to keep it for several more years.
> It sounds to me like they are trying to not file an insurance
> claim. They carry insurance for just this sort of thing, but of course
> their claim history affects their rates and future insurability.

Thanks...my thoughts exactly!...They talk about replacing the head with
a second hand one which they will check. The Car has only done 62 000
miles and all long distance so the engine was like new...very
Disappointing to say the least

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

I agree, that sleeving is a cheap way out and they know it. I would demand
that they replace the engine with a new engine, especially since the old
engine was taken care of from the sounds of it. If not im sure your lawyer
can make them see the light ;)


-Branden


"Cords" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Rex B wrote:
>> Cords wrote:
>> > I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
>> > 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
>> > spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
>> > head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
>> > bore and put in a metal liner.
>> > Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
>> > I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
>> > block or the entire engine!
>>
>> You have a right to demand the car be returned to the same condition as
>> you brought it in, plus the work you paid them to perform. Iron
>> sleeving one of 8 alusil bores is NOT making you whole. You need a new
>> or factory reman engine, or a salvage engine of equal or lower miles,
>> and a guarantee with whatever they install. Do not let them sleeve your
>> motor.
>> While the piston is likely peened a little, the rod is probably OK.
>> But the combustion chamber in the head is also suspect.
>> A lot depends on the miles on your engine as to what might be a fair
>> replacement, but I'd assume the factory engine is good for 200K miles.
>> If you have had that car for 9 model years it is a reasonable assumption
>> that you intend to keep it for several more years.
>> It sounds to me like they are trying to not file an insurance
>> claim. They carry insurance for just this sort of thing, but of course
>> their claim history affects their rates and future insurability.
>
> Thanks...my thoughts exactly!...They talk about replacing the head with
> a second hand one which they will check. The Car has only done 62 000
> miles and all long distance so the engine was like new...very
> Disappointing to say the least
>

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

Cords wrote:
> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
> bore and put in a metal liner.
> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
> block or the entire engine!
>
> Any advice would be appreciated
> Cords
>

No. You can't resleeve an engine that does not have sleeves. The
Alusil or Nikasil engines are alloy blocks with a very thin coating in
the bores. Not sleeves.

They will find this was a very expensive mistake. New short block, new
head. Big bucks.

--
-Fred W

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

"Fred W" > wrote in message
...
> Cords wrote:
>> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
>> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
>> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
>> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
>> bore and put in a metal liner.
>> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
>> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
>> block or the entire engine!
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated
>> Cords
>>
>
> No. You can't resleeve an engine that does not have sleeves. The Alusil
> or Nikasil engines are alloy blocks with a very thin coating in the bores.
> Not sleeves.
>
> They will find this was a very expensive mistake. New short block, new
> head. Big bucks.
>
> --
> -Fred W
These engines are made from an aluminum alloy that has copious quantities of
a very hard material (forget which one). Anyway, a very thin layer of hard
material forms the wear surface. Go through that, and you are left with
aluminum which is a very very very poor choice for wear.

Jim

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

Fred W wrote:
> Cords wrote:
>> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
>> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
>> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
>> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
>> bore and put in a metal liner.
>> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
>> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
>> block or the entire engine!
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated
>> Cords
>>
>
> No. You can't resleeve an engine that does not have sleeves.

Sure you can. It was routine back when Vegas roamed the earth.
Still is a big business when you need to reclaim an otherwise good block
that might not be replaceable. It is a common, weekly operation at any
automotive machine shop.

But even then they didn't sleeve just the one bad cylinder.

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

In article >,
Fred W > wrote:
> No. You can't resleeve an engine that does not have sleeves.

No - but you can *sleeve* some. Used to be common if the wear or damage
exceeded the maximum re-bore size. Gave you a better bore material, too.

> The Alusil or Nikasil engines are alloy blocks with a very thin
> coating in the bores. Not sleeves.

Dunno if it's possible to sleeve the V-8. Some of the alluminium sixes had
liners after the Nikasil thingie.

> They will find this was a very expensive mistake. New short block, new
> head. Big bucks.

I hope not built up by the same firm that drops bits inside the engine
without noticing...;-)

Personally, I'd go for a similar mileage engine from a wreck.

--
*Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Fred W > wrote:
> > No. You can't resleeve an engine that does not have sleeves.
>
> No - but you can *sleeve* some. Used to be common if the wear or damage
> exceeded the maximum re-bore size. Gave you a better bore material, too.
>
> > The Alusil or Nikasil engines are alloy blocks with a very thin
> > coating in the bores. Not sleeves.
>
> Dunno if it's possible to sleeve the V-8. Some of the alluminium sixes had
> liners after the Nikasil thingie.
>
> > They will find this was a very expensive mistake. New short block, new
> > head. Big bucks.
>
> I hope not built up by the same firm that drops bits inside the engine
> without noticing...;-)
>
> Personally, I'd go for a similar mileage engine from a wreck.
>
> --
> *Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.
>
> Dave Plowman London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks for all the advice.....looks like I might have a small fight on
my hands!
I wander what BMW Germany official stance would be on re sleeving a
Alusil block?
Thanks again to all!

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

In article >,
Jim > wrote:
>These engines are made from an aluminum alloy that has copious quantities of
>a very hard material (forget which one). Anyway, a very thin layer of hard
>material forms the wear surface. Go through that, and you are left with
>aluminum which is a very very very poor choice for wear.

Silicon. It's the "sil" in nika/aluma-sil.


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

In article om>,
Cords > wrote:
> I wander what BMW Germany official stance would be on re sleeving a
> Alusil block?

Somewhere I'd heard there were problems using a boring machine with alusil
- heavy wear on the cutter.

--
*Therapy is expensive, poppin' bubble wrap is cheap! You choose.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

"Rex B" > wrote in message
...
> Fred W wrote:
>> Cords wrote:
>>> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
>>> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
>>> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
>>> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
>>> bore and put in a metal liner.
>>> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
>>> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
>>> block or the entire engine!
>>>
>>> Any advice would be appreciated
>>> Cords
>>>
>>
>> No. You can't resleeve an engine that does not have sleeves.
>
> Sure you can. It was routine back when Vegas roamed the earth.
> Still is a big business when you need to reclaim an otherwise good block
> that might not be replaceable. It is a common, weekly operation at any
> automotive machine shop.
>
> But even then they didn't sleeve just the one bad cylinder.

See previous, AFAIAA the walls are too thin to bore out and sleeve.

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

Rex B wrote:
> Fred W wrote:
>
>> Cords wrote:
>>
>>> I had unfortunate incident at a BMW dealership. Whilst sevicing My 1997
>>> 740 4.4 litre the technician accidently dropped the screw top of the
>>> spark plug into one bore. Needless to say on start up destroyed the
>>> head and scored the cylinder. The dealership now wants to machine the
>>> bore and put in a metal liner.
>>> Is this possible on a aluminium alusil engine?
>>> I would have thought the correct thing to do would be to replace the
>>> block or the entire engine!
>>>
>>> Any advice would be appreciated
>>> Cords
>>>
>>
>> No. You can't resleeve an engine that does not have sleeves.
>
>
> Sure you can. It was routine back when Vegas roamed the earth.
> Still is a big business when you need to reclaim an otherwise good block
> that might not be replaceable. It is a common, weekly operation at any
> automotive machine shop.
>
> But even then they didn't sleeve just the one bad cylinder.

Yes, you are technically correct. It can be done. I should have said,
"you *shouldn't*...". The ngine was not designed for sleeves and would
not run the same.

Besides, why settle for some bodged-up repair when the shop was
obviously fully liable for the incident?

--
-Fred W

Reboring /sleeving 740 4.4 engine
 

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Jim > wrote:
>>These engines are made from an aluminum alloy that has copious quantities
>>of
>>a very hard material (forget which one). Anyway, a very thin layer of
>>hard
>>material forms the wear surface. Go through that, and you are left with
>>aluminum which is a very very very poor choice for wear.
>
> Silicon. It's the "sil" in nika/aluma-sil.
>
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net
During the manufacturing, all but the silica gets removed from the cylinder
bore.

Jim