'65 fastback and engine size
So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three years.
Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time to really get into it. Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate -- http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm which claims to fit in fox chassis. Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as well build it huge:-P |
japhar81 wrote:
> So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three years. > Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time to really > get into it. > > Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the > engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate -- > http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm > which claims to fit in fox chassis. That claim is for '79-93 Fox cars. In a '65, you cannot fit a 385-series engine in there without serious chassis mods, and hacking at the shock towers. I'd go SB stroker if I were you. The 351W can be bored and stroked to 427ci. If you want it to raise serious hell, stick a blower on top of it. Please do extensive homework on builders and drivetrains before you drop that kinda dough. Also, with those power levels, be sure to get a four-point rollcage, GOOD subframe connectors, export brace and monte carlo bar to help the thing from twisting up. I'd do most of that with a 427 stroker in a '65 anyway. The '65 chassis just weren't as strong as the next seven model years. > Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as > well build it huge:-P How deep are your pockets? As my custom builder friend said, "anything is -possible-". > > -- Wound Up ThunderSnake #65 |
I figured the power would torque the thing to hell, I was going to have the
entire chassis reinforced on top of the subframe connectors (I've got a shop doing the frame work, I'm more interested in the putting stuff together piece of the build). As for the rollcage, I considered it, but Im not seeing how I could easily fit one, and my 6'6 self in the-P Guess I'll need to figure that out somehow. I'll take a look at the engine, I'm not feeling the desire to shoehorn something thats too big. And you're right, I can stick a blower on there. "Wound Up" > wrote in message ... > japhar81 wrote: >> So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three >> years. Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time >> to really get into it. >> >> Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the >> engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate -- >> http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm >> which claims to fit in fox chassis. > > That claim is for '79-93 Fox cars. In a '65, you cannot fit a 385-series > engine in there without serious chassis mods, and hacking at the shock > towers. I'd go SB stroker if I were you. The 351W can be bored and > stroked to 427ci. If you want it to raise serious hell, stick a blower on > top of it. Please do extensive homework on builders and drivetrains > before you drop that kinda dough. > > Also, with those power levels, be sure to get a four-point rollcage, GOOD > subframe connectors, export brace and monte carlo bar to help the thing > from twisting up. I'd do most of that with a 427 stroker in a '65 anyway. > The '65 chassis just weren't as strong as the next seven model years. > >> Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as >> well build it huge:-P > > How deep are your pockets? As my custom builder friend said, "anything > is -possible-". > >> >> > > > -- > Wound Up > ThunderSnake #65 > |
consider adding convertible torque boxes tothe car also ford did it in later
years. Also a cage with a swing away door opening, get a lower or thiner seat (racing bucket) to get closer to the floor. Or perhaps build your own "guerny bubble" into the roof |
oh god, no bubble, please. that just kills the lines IMO. The racing buckets
arent a bad idea though. "walt peifer" > wrote in message . .. > consider adding convertible torque boxes tothe car also ford did it in > later years. Also a cage with a swing away door opening, get a lower or > thiner seat (racing bucket) to get closer to the floor. Or perhaps build > your own "guerny bubble" into the roof > |
japhar81 wrote:
> I figured the power would torque the thing to hell, I was going to have the > entire chassis reinforced on top of the subframe connectors (I've got a shop > doing the frame work, I'm more interested in the putting stuff together > piece of the build). A '65 Mustang doesn't have a separate frame. Its "frame" consists of boxed sheetmetal running down each side. To get an idea of its torsional rigidity, hold an empty Sunshine saltines cracker box at each end and twist. Frame connectors help alot. A four or six point rollcage on top of that is better. I put a six point and frame connectors in my kids' '65 fb. Last Saturday I was jacking up the front end, using a floor jack on the pinch weld seam just like the owners manual says, and both wheels came off the ground, front and rear. You could jack an unmodified Stang all the way up with the floor jack and the rear wheel would not come off the ground. Also, the rear seat in this car is still accessible to me (5' 9" 160 lbs 51 yrs old). Here are some pix I took to show the seat belt mounting arrangement, but they also show a bit of the rollcage. http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0116.jpg http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0114.jpg http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0115.jpg This cage is not NHRA legal for a 10 second car, which is not a problem for me (not by a LONG shot) but should be for you if you're planning on running a 514 or a blown 427. > As for the rollcage, I considered it, but Im not seeing how I could easily > fit one, and my 6'6 self in the-P Guess I'll need to figure that out > somehow. A four point won't get in your way at all. If you use doglegs for the side bars, like on my kids' car, a six point is not in the way either. But if you go NHRA legal, it might be a problem for a 6'6" guy. You can get in, but you might need a headliner handhold (or an assistant) to get out. > > I'll take a look at the engine, I'm not feeling the desire to shoehorn > something thats too big. And you're right, I can stick a blower on there. Engine displacement is not directly related to engine size. The 281 ci Mustang engine of today is bigger on the outside than a 514 ci 385 series motor. You can fit a 385 series in a '65 if you trim the shocktowers, just like they did with the '69 and '70 Boss 429's (also a 385 series, with even bulkier heads). But you'll have to get smaller diameter springs. This means coil overs. There are three sources: Revelation Racing Supplies, Global West, and Total Control Products. They're not cheap. TCP has had delivery problems and was sold to new ownership, and it's not clear if the problems are resolved. RRS is an Aussie brand that's only been in the States for about a year. Global West only just came out with the coil overs, and last time I looked did not even have them on their web site. In fact, they might just be a Web rumor. There's also Fatman Fabrications with a kit to adapt the Fox Mustang McPherson struts to the classic Stang. Also not cheap. Finally, there are the Mustang II shock tower eliminator kits, but these are for the cruise and car show only crowd. Heidt's makes two kits, and Rod & Custom Motorsports makes one. So the only limit to putting a 385 series into a '65 is your wallet. 180 Out TS 28 |
Thanks for the info, time to google some of the stuff you mentioned. When I
said I've got a shop doing the framework, they're reinforcing the boxed sheetmetal with something a bit more solid. And theyre going to add connectors once i get to that point. > wrote in message ups.com... > japhar81 wrote: >> I figured the power would torque the thing to hell, I was going to > have the >> entire chassis reinforced on top of the subframe connectors (I've got > a shop >> doing the frame work, I'm more interested in the putting stuff > together >> piece of the build). > > A '65 Mustang doesn't have a separate frame. Its "frame" consists of > boxed sheetmetal running down each side. To get an idea of its > torsional rigidity, hold an empty Sunshine saltines cracker box at each > end and twist. Frame connectors help alot. A four or six point > rollcage on top of that is better. I put a six point and frame > connectors in my kids' '65 fb. Last Saturday I was jacking up the > front end, using a floor jack on the pinch weld seam just like the > owners manual says, and both wheels came off the ground, front and > rear. You could jack an unmodified Stang all the way up with the floor > jack and the rear wheel would not come off the ground. Also, the rear > seat in this car is still accessible to me (5' 9" 160 lbs 51 yrs old). > > Here are some pix I took to show the seat belt mounting arrangement, > but they also show a bit of the rollcage. > > http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0116.jpg > http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0114.jpg > http://www.mustangmods.com/data/9461/dscn0115.jpg > > This cage is not NHRA legal for a 10 second car, which is not a problem > for me (not by a LONG shot) but should be for you if you're planning on > running a 514 or a blown 427. > >> As for the rollcage, I considered it, but Im not seeing how I could > easily >> fit one, and my 6'6 self in the-P Guess I'll need to figure that > out >> somehow. > > A four point won't get in your way at all. If you use doglegs for the > side bars, like on my kids' car, a six point is not in the way either. > But if you go NHRA legal, it might be a problem for a 6'6" guy. You > can get in, but you might need a headliner handhold (or an assistant) > to get out. >> >> I'll take a look at the engine, I'm not feeling the desire to > shoehorn >> something thats too big. And you're right, I can stick a blower on > there. > > Engine displacement is not directly related to engine size. The 281 > ci Mustang engine of today is bigger on the outside than a 514 ci 385 > series motor. > > You can fit a 385 series in a '65 if you trim the shocktowers, just > like they did with the '69 and '70 Boss 429's (also a 385 series, with > even bulkier heads). But you'll have to get smaller diameter springs. > This means coil overs. There are three sources: Revelation Racing > Supplies, Global West, and Total Control Products. They're not cheap. > TCP has had delivery problems and was sold to new ownership, and it's > not clear if the problems are resolved. RRS is an Aussie brand that's > only been in the States for about a year. Global West only just came > out with the coil overs, and last time I looked did not even have them > on their web site. In fact, they might just be a Web rumor. > > There's also Fatman Fabrications with a kit to adapt the Fox Mustang > McPherson struts to the classic Stang. Also not cheap. > > Finally, there are the Mustang II shock tower eliminator kits, but > these are for the cruise and car show only crowd. Heidt's makes two > kits, and Rod & Custom Motorsports makes one. > > So the only limit to putting a 385 series into a '65 is your wallet. > > 180 Out > TS 28 > |
I didn't catch your intent.... street, race, both? You just said you
were rebuilding it. Check out the Mustangs Plus (www.mustangsplus.com) full frame stiffening kit they have for their restomod Ronster Essentially designed to give converts major strength improvement. Of the original engines, the 351W (not 351C) fits without mods to the shock towers. The 67 was opened up to fit bigger engines like the 390. You can go BIGGER... as big as your wallet will allow, with a lot of modification, but will it be streetable? You always have the option of adding a NOVI supercharger or nitrous. On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:34:34 -0500, "japhar81" > wrote: >So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three years. >Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time to really >get into it. > >Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the >engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate -- >http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm >which claims to fit in fox chassis. > >Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as >well build it huge:-P > Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
Ive actually been poking around that site for a while now... The goal is
street, as well as show.Are the shock towers the only real mod? "Spike" > wrote in message ... >I didn't catch your intent.... street, race, both? You just said you > were rebuilding it. > > Check out the Mustangs Plus (www.mustangsplus.com) full frame > stiffening kit they have for their restomod Ronster Essentially > designed to give converts major strength improvement. > > Of the original engines, the 351W (not 351C) fits without mods to the > shock towers. The 67 was opened up to fit bigger engines like the 390. > > You can go BIGGER... as big as your wallet will allow, with a lot of > modification, but will it be streetable? You always have the option of > adding a NOVI supercharger or nitrous. > > > On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:34:34 -0500, "japhar81" > > wrote: > >>So I've been working on rebuilding a '65 fastback for the last three >>years. >>Haven't gotten that far yet, but I finally have the money and time to >>really >>get into it. >> >>Anyway, I was just thinking, just how big an engine can I cram in to the >>engine compartment? I was looking at the ford racing 514 CID crate -- >>http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3505...acket-Race.htm >>which claims to fit in fox chassis. >> >>Then again, can I fit something bigger? If I'm gonna build it, I might as >>well build it huge:-P >> > > Hey! Spikey Likes IT! > 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok > Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior > Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" > w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
Forget the uncomfortable racing buckets. If you're going to reinforce the
frame then you can have this done easily. The seat boxes can be removed at the spot welds, cut and rebent with a box and pan brake, and welded back in the car. This will lower your seats. look it up at this website. www.mustangsplus.com . The owner is 6'5" and he does this to all his cars. They also have and awsome, inexpensive chassis strengthening kit that is stronger than subframe connectors. It's strong enough to allow someone to cut off the roof if they wanted to make a roadster out of a coupe. People have been installing th 4.2 modular. and cobra engines in earlier cars. They are as big or bigger in dimensions than a big block 385 series. See what they're doing for clearance. I have the same idea to install a 460 in my '70 fastback. Much easier for me though as it fits right in with no mods. I'm gonna call it my Boss 460 and make it look like a boss. -- Mark C. Jack of all trades, master of none. (well, maybe a couple) I r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d |
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