T1-S vs. ES100 in 14" size
 

Hi all-

How does the T1-S (195/55-14) compare with the Yoko ES100 (195/60-14) for
Miata? Particularly are the Yoko's stiffer in the sidewall? Treadwear
differences? I'm confident either tire will perform well both wet and dry
pavement.

I know everyone loves the T1-S... and I'm leaning strongly towards it...
but the reports of soft sidewall have me wondering if I'm going to regret it.

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:31:32 -0600, josh > wrote:

>Hi all-
>
>How does the T1-S (195/55-14) compare with the Yoko ES100 (195/60-14) for
>Miata? Particularly are the Yoko's stiffer in the sidewall? Treadwear
>differences? I'm confident either tire will perform well both wet and dry
>pavement.
>
>I know everyone loves the T1-S... and I'm leaning strongly towards it...
>but the reports of soft sidewall have me wondering if I'm going to regret it.

I have the es100's in a 16. I wouldn't trade them for anything. I came
close to the T1-S, it would have been my second choice.

Tom

I've had 16" ES 100s for about 6 weeks. With all the rain we've had here in
SOCal, I've found they are better in the wet than the factory Bridgestones
and at least as good a wet tire as the Dunlops I had on my previous Miata.
Also, they run a little quieter. I have not had a chance to push them to
their limits on dry pavement, so I can't help you there, but all in all, I
am pleased.


"josh" > wrote in message
news:1109885319.674767@sj-nntpcache-5...
> Hi all-
>
> How does the T1-S (195/55-14) compare with the Yoko ES100 (195/60-14) for
> Miata? Particularly are the Yoko's stiffer in the sidewall? Treadwear
> differences? I'm confident either tire will perform well both wet and dry
> pavement.
>
> I know everyone loves the T1-S... and I'm leaning strongly towards it...
> but the reports of soft sidewall have me wondering if I'm going to regret
it.

In article <1109885319.674767@sj-nntpcache-5>, josh >
wrote:

> How does the T1-S (195/55-14) compare with the Yoko ES100 (195/60-14) for
> Miata? Particularly are the Yoko's stiffer in the sidewall? Treadwear
> differences? I'm confident either tire will perform well both wet and dry
> pavement.

The Toyo is in a different class when it comes to grip, both wet and
dry. It does have a softer turn in, but also a significantly softer
ride. The turn-in issue goes away after about 30 minutes--most folks
simply adjust to it and move on. The Yoko will last a bit longer.

I think Leon has used both, but perhaps not in 14". I found very little
difference between 14" and 15" Toyos.

--
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

josh wrote:
> Hi all-
>
> How does the T1-S (195/55-14) compare with the Yoko ES100 (195/60-14)
> for Miata? Particularly are the Yoko's stiffer in the sidewall?
> Treadwear differences? I'm confident either tire will perform well both
> wet and dry pavement.
>
> I know everyone loves the T1-S... and I'm leaning strongly towards
> it... but the reports of soft sidewall have me wondering if I'm going to
> regret it.


I have had both sets of tires on the same car and I felt like the Yoko
ES-100's had slightly superior wet traction and slightly inferior dry
traction compared to the Toyo T1-S. The differences were minimal. This
is just my perception as a driver, since we have no verified comparison
data to back any claims up.

The Yoko's have a stiffer sidewall than the Toyos, but not so bad that
the ride is uncomfortable, though obviously less comfortable than the
Toyos. I feel like the ES-100 is an excellent compromise between comfort
and turn-in, but I would be happy with either tire on a miata as long as
they are not used in the snow. I would expect to get similar life from
each tire, perhaps a bit more out of the ES-100's.

Pat

Lanny Chambers > wrote:

>In article <1109885319.674767@sj-nntpcache-5>, josh >
>wrote:
>
>> How does the T1-S (195/55-14) compare with the Yoko ES100 (195/60-14) for
>> Miata? Particularly are the Yoko's stiffer in the sidewall? Treadwear
>> differences? I'm confident either tire will perform well both wet and dry
>> pavement.
>
>The Toyo is in a different class when it comes to grip, both wet and
>dry.

I do not know about that. For one, I believe that the ES 100 is
more reliable in the wet. Cannot say that I have noticed much
difference in dry grip either. Maybe if I was a better driver?

> It does have a softer turn in, but also a significantly softer
>ride. The turn-in issue goes away after about 30 minutes--most folks
>simply adjust to it and move on. The Yoko will last a bit longer.
>
>I think Leon has used both, but perhaps not in 14".

I have not had ES 100 in 14".

> I found very little
>difference between 14" and 15" Toyos.

Leon

--
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

pws wrote:

> I have had both sets of tires on the same car and I felt like the Yoko
> ES-100's had slightly superior wet traction and slightly inferior dry
> traction compared to the Toyo T1-S. The differences were minimal. This
> is just my perception as a driver, since we have no verified comparison
> data to back any claims up.
>
> The Yoko's have a stiffer sidewall than the Toyos, but not so bad that
> the ride is uncomfortable, though obviously less comfortable than the
> Toyos. I feel like the ES-100 is an excellent compromise between comfort
> and turn-in, but I would be happy with either tire on a miata as long as
> they are not used in the snow. I would expect to get similar life from
> each tire, perhaps a bit more out of the ES-100's.
>
> Pat


What size ES-100 did you have? What size T1-S?

Just curious...

The T1-S 195/55-14 is 1/2" wider overall than the 185/60-14 ES-100, .2"
smaller in diameter, and is probably lighter. This is one reason I was
asking about the 14" tires, because the Toyo is unique in the 195/55-14 size.

So I guess I'm really considering:

1. T1-S in 195/55-14 ... so far probably my top choice but I'm afraid I'll
be disappointed with the turn-in (soft sidewall is precisely what I hate
about my current tires; ultra-stiff sidewall is what I loved about my last set)

2. AVS ES100, and in this case, either 185/60-14 or 195/60-14.

I guess I kind of suspect that the 15" tires that are more identical in size
may perform more similarly. But I'm concerned with the 14" sizes only. It
seems that the additional sidewall height in 14" tires may allow the
sidewall flex to contribute more to the feel compared with a lower-profile
tire like a 15" or 16" for Miata.

josh wrote:

>
> What size ES-100 did you have? What size T1-S?
>
> Just curious...

195/50/15 with both sets of tires. I haven't had experience with the
different tires sizes on the 14 inch wheels, but there should be a lot
of people here who have.

>
> The T1-S 195/55-14 is 1/2" wider overall than the 185/60-14 ES-100, .2"
> smaller in diameter, and is probably lighter. This is one reason I was
> asking about the 14" tires, because the Toyo is unique in the 195/55-14
> size.

>
> So I guess I'm really considering:
>
> 1. T1-S in 195/55-14 ... so far probably my top choice but I'm afraid
> I'll be disappointed with the turn-in (soft sidewall is precisely what I
> hate about my current tires; ultra-stiff sidewall is what I loved about
> my last set)

The Toyos aren't that bad as far as turn-in, but if you are more
concerned with turn-in speed than comfort, I would go with another tire.
If you want ultra-stiff sidewalls, you might look into the Falken Azenis.

Pat

In article <1109955565.469423@sj-nntpcache-5>, josh >
wrote:

> 1. T1-S in 195/55-14 ... so far probably my top choice but I'm afraid I'll
> be disappointed with the turn-in (soft sidewall is precisely what I hate
> about my current tires; ultra-stiff sidewall is what I loved about my last
> set)

Don't make too much of this. The T1-S feels like it's taking up slack
before it grips...then it grips hard. The overall feel is *not* mushy or
vague, and it does not roll under at 29 psi. You will automatically
begin to turn in a little earlier, that's all. By the second day, you
probably won't even notice the difference. It will encourage you to
become a smoother, more-foresighted driver. It may change your
preference for stiff, heavy tires.

Not mentioned yet: the Toyo is amazingly unfazed by broken or loose
surfaces. It's saved my butt when I've hit unexpected patches of gravel.

> But I'm concerned with the 14" sizes only. It
> seems that the additional sidewall height in 14" tires may allow the
> sidewall flex to contribute more to the feel compared with a lower-profile
> tire like a 15" or 16" for Miata.

When I went from 14" to 15" T1-S, I did not feel any significant
differences in ride, grip, or turn in. I can't comment on 16" sizes.

--
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html