2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission
 

While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the worst;
nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the
trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
nothing like burnt fluid.



I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than turn
back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to stay
at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first gear.
After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I assume
that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the
service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another quarter
of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe place
and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here
shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.



What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with these
components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module of
some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at least
half the tab?

"John Gregory" > wrote in message
...
> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the
worst;
> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the
> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
> nothing like burnt fluid.
>
>
>
> I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than turn
> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to stay
> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first
gear.
> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I
assume
> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the
> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another
quarter
> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe
place
> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here
> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.
>
>
>
> What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with these
> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module of
> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at
least
> half the tab?
>
Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both sensors
on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts should
cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for the
job.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's what
happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than
$200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:

Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other words,
it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with the
transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or somewhere
else in the engine?

Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and not
readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a half may
be too long.


"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Gregory" > wrote in message
> ...
>> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
>> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
>> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the
> worst;
>> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
>> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked
>> the
>> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
>> nothing like burnt fluid.
>>
>>
>>
>> I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than
>> turn
>> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to
>> stay
>> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
>> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first
> gear.
>> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I
> assume
>> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the
>> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another
> quarter
>> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe
> place
>> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit here
>> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.
>>
>>
>>
>> What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
>> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
>> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
>> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with
>> these
>> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module
>> of
>> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at
> least
>> half the tab?
>>
> Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both
> sensors
> on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts should
> cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for the
> job.
>
> Glenn Beasley
> Chrysler Tech
>
>

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:

> Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other
> words, it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

It's on because the computer isn't seeing proper signals from the output
speed sensor.

> Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with
> the transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or
> somewhere else in the engine?

They are indeed accessible from the outside, without disassembling the
transmission.

> Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and
> not readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a
> half may be too long.

Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or
Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or
damage.

I've got the official factory service manual from Chrysler. Will the light
automatically go out when the parts are replaced? If those parts are on the
outside, I have trouble understanding what risk of injury or damage might
occur. But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.
When I think about it though, it's a moot point. The car is at the
dealership, I'd have to tow it about two miles (assuming I shouldn't drive
it as is), then I'd have to get the parts Monday and make the repair in the
rain followed by snow (northern Ohio). Bunk! I'll just let Chrysler do it
and be guided by what I'm told here. I'm acquainted with the service manager
(he's help give me advice on various things I've done myself) and he seems
to be fair. If I let him know Monday that I seem to have my finger on the
problem that should help keep the labor where it ought to be. I assume the
1.5 is what "the book" (what IS that book called that gives you guys the
expected time of repair?) calls for.

I appreciate all the help.



"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2005, John Gregory wrote:
>
>> Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
>> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other
>> words, it goes on automatically but not off automatically.
>
> It's on because the computer isn't seeing proper signals from the output
> speed sensor.
>
>> Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with
>> the transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or
>> somewhere else in the engine?
>
> They are indeed accessible from the outside, without disassembling the
> transmission.
>
>> Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and
>> not readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a
>> half may be too long.
>
> Which manual do you have? It must be a FACTORY manual, not a Haynes or
> Chilton, etc., or you are wasting your time and risking injury and/or
> damage.

John Gregory wrote:
> I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's what
> happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than
> $200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:
>
> Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other words,
> it goes on automatically but not off automatically.
>
> Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with the
> transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or somewhere
> else in the engine?
>
> Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and not
> readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a half may
> be too long.

Here's a How To linked from the 300M Enthusisats Club web site (300M has
identical power train and chassis as Concorde) - tells you everything
you need to know including diagram showing location of sensors:
http://theswampbbs.com/300m/Services...peedsensor.htm

You'll need the front end or the left front up on jack stands - you'll
be reaching in to the center of the vehicle from the left side - you'll
be on the ground on your back. To access one of the sensors, you may
need either an open end or deep well (1"). Regular socket (1") will
work for the other one (sensor is shorter, and less obstructions). 20
minute job.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

John Gregory wrote:

> I've got the official factory service manual from Chrysler. Will the light
> automatically go out when the parts are replaced? If those parts are on the
> outside, I have trouble understanding what risk of injury or damage might
> occur. But then... I haven't looked at the manual yet for this operation.
> When I think about it though, it's a moot point. The car is at the
> dealership, I'd have to tow it about two miles (assuming I shouldn't drive
> it as is), then I'd have to get the parts Monday and make the repair in the
> rain followed by snow (northern Ohio). Bunk! I'll just let Chrysler do it
> and be guided by what I'm told here. I'm acquainted with the service manager
> (he's help give me advice on various things I've done myself) and he seems
> to be fair. If I let him know Monday that I seem to have my finger on the
> problem that should help keep the labor where it ought to be. I assume the
> 1.5 is what "the book" (what IS that book called that gives you guys the
> expected time of repair?) calls for.
>
> I appreciate all the help.

Shop rate book.

20 minute job for a DIY'er. They'll probably charge you the 1.5 hours -
one of the costs of having "professionals" do it.

BTW - you might want to visit and consider joining the 300M Enthusiasts
Club: http://300mclub.100megs42.com/

Their forums: http://300mclub.100megs42.com/forums/index.php

Also www.dodgeintrepid.net forums.

All 2nd gen. LH cars are 95+% mechanically the same. There are no good
Concorde forums, so those are the places to hang out.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

John Gregory wrote:

> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the worst;
> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked the
> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
> nothing like burnt fluid.

To expand on what others have said, a transmission speed sensor failed. There
are two such sensors, one that measures input shaft speed and one that measures
output shaft speed. In your case, we know that it was your output sensor that
failed, because of the failed speedometer indication.

Because the TCM (transmission control module) wasn't receiving normal readings,
it went into a preprogrammed (limp home) mode that locks the transmission in 2nd
gear, hence your high tachometer reading. This protects the transmission and
allows you to still drive, all though with great care and at slow speed.

These sensors are known to fail for some reason. I'm not sure if newer sensors
will last longer, or if sensors manufactured before some data are not prone to
failure. However they are readily available (many models use the same sensors
and dealers tend to keep a bunch in their stock) and not excessively expensive.
It is an easy do it yourself repair with the caveat that you need to be able to
get under the car (sensors are accessed from under the transmission on the right
(driver) side and a factory service manual is important. You may wish to
replace the nearby input sensor too, although I don't have any evidence to
suggest that the new sensor would be any better. The input and output sensors
have different part numbers with a slightly different socket to prevent them
from being reversed. These are hall effect sensors.

John Gregory wrote:

> I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's what
> happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than
> $200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:
>
> Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other words,
> it goes on automatically but not off automatically.

I believe what you saw was the "check engine" light which illuminates whenever a
fairly serious trouble code is stored by the computer. Some more serious
conditions will also cause the light to flash instead of being on steady.

The light should go out after the computer detects the problem has not
reoccurred after a period of time. If the dealer does the repair they may be
able to reset it with their scan tool equipment. You can also view some trouble
codes by turning the ignition ON three times repeatedly (don't start the engine)
and watching the odometer display. This won't get all codes but it often can
give you the more serious ones. Consult the FSM for their meanings.

"John Gregory" > wrote in message
...
> I never thought I'd be pleased to hear my car needed repair but that's
what
> happens when you expect a $2500 bill and learn it's gonna' cost less than
> $200. I appreciate the help. A few more questions:
>
> Q1) That indicator light. Is that something that gets triggered by
> transmission fluid heat but needs to shut off by a mechanic. In other
words,
> it goes on automatically but not off automatically

In you case it set due to a fault code with the output speed sensor, If you
put the part on yourself it will see the problem is fixed and will turn it
off. after a few few trips. Or a scan tool will reset it.
>
> Q2) Are these parts that are readily accessible without tampering with the
> transmission itself - like something bolted onto the housing or somewhere
> else in the engine?

On the left side outside of trans.
>
> Q3) I have a manual and am mechanically inclined. I'm also retired and not
> readily inclined to slide under my car for very long. An Hour and a half
may
> be too long.

It wouldnt take an hour and a half, but you would have to raise at least the
left side of the vehicle

>
>
> "maxpower" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "John Gregory" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
> >> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
> >> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages, suspecting the
> > worst;
> >> nothing but the speedometer registered unusual and the car continued. I
> >> traveled about a quarter to a half mile, stopped at a station, checked
> >> the
> >> trans fluid and found nothing unusual. slight odor from the fluid but
> >> nothing like burnt fluid.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than
> >> turn
> >> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to
> >> stay
> >> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
> >> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000; as though I were stuck in first
> > gear.
> >> After traveling about half a mile, the transmission light came on ( I
> > assume
> >> that's what it was despite my failure to find a similar picture in the
> >> service manual). I continued to drive with that light on for another
> > quarter
> >> of a mile to half mile then shut off the car as soon as I found a safe
> > place
> >> and called a tow truck. It was towed to a Chrysler dealer. Now I sit
here
> >> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
> >> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
> >> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
> >> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with
> >> these
> >> components? Or could this be an electrical issue.like a computer module
> >> of
> >> some sort? And what's my likelihood of getting Chrysler to pick up at
> > least
> >> half the tab?
> >>
> > Your out put speed sensor quit on you, have the dealer replace both
> > sensors
> > on this trans, the Input and the Output speed sensor, the two parts
should
> > cost about $65.00 and I wouldn't expect to pay more then 1.5 labor for
the
> > job.
> >
> > Glenn Beasley
> > Chrysler Tech
> >
> >
>
>