Aluminum head dings above cylinder- Repairable?
 

Some metal debris (I don't yet know source....perhaps a valve guide
disintegrated? Will know more tonight.) has resulted in a couple
hundred dings on the head for that cylinder. Some I would even call
gashes.

Before I bother to take it to a machine shop, I thought I'd ask if I
should bother to take it to a machine shop. (-;

I'm thinking that either it can be left alone and will run okay, or
have the dings smoothed out a bit, or maybe it's possible to fill
gashes in some way (forgive my ignorance as to whether a shop can
typically weld aluminum to fill) or whether I just have to find a
replacement head? Obviously, if this head is repairable, it'll get
valve job too.

This is on a 94 Merc Tracer aka Ford Escort. I don't want to spend alot
of dough...it's just a utility vehicle with alot of miles and I'd like
to get another 20k miles (or more) out of it for cheap.

TIA,

Joe

Joe S wrote:
> Some metal debris (I don't yet know source....perhaps a valve guide
> disintegrated? Will know more tonight.) has resulted in a couple
> hundred dings on the head for that cylinder. Some I would even call
> gashes.
>
> Before I bother to take it to a machine shop, I thought I'd ask if I
> should bother to take it to a machine shop. (-;
>
> I'm thinking that either it can be left alone and will run okay, or
> have the dings smoothed out a bit, or maybe it's possible to fill
> gashes in some way (forgive my ignorance as to whether a shop can
> typically weld aluminum to fill) or whether I just have to find a
> replacement head? Obviously, if this head is repairable, it'll get
> valve job too.
>
> This is on a 94 Merc Tracer aka Ford Escort. I don't want to spend
alot
> of dough...it's just a utility vehicle with alot of miles and I'd
like
> to get another 20k miles (or more) out of it for cheap.
>
> TIA,
>
> Joe


The debris may be a cracked spark plug insulator that flew around in
the cylinder and broke into many smaller pieces. They can crack when a
small coolant leak hits the hot spark plug.

The resulting dings in your combustion chamber create many sharp edges
that could get excessively hot and cause preignition. Perhaps the shop
could bead blast the chamber surface before doing necessary valve seat
and guide work. That would be an acceptable repair for fairly low
cost.

Toyota MDT in MO

Comboverfish wrote:
> Joe S wrote:
>
>>Some metal debris (I don't yet know source....perhaps a valve guide
>>disintegrated? Will know more tonight.) has resulted in a couple
>>hundred dings on the head for that cylinder. Some I would even call
>>gashes.
>>
>>Before I bother to take it to a machine shop, I thought I'd ask if I
>>should bother to take it to a machine shop. (-;
>>
>>I'm thinking that either it can be left alone and will run okay, or
>>have the dings smoothed out a bit, or maybe it's possible to fill
>>gashes in some way (forgive my ignorance as to whether a shop can
>>typically weld aluminum to fill) or whether I just have to find a
>>replacement head? Obviously, if this head is repairable, it'll get
>>valve job too.
>>
>>This is on a 94 Merc Tracer aka Ford Escort. I don't want to spend
>
> alot
>
>>of dough...it's just a utility vehicle with alot of miles and I'd
>
> like
>
>>to get another 20k miles (or more) out of it for cheap.
>>
>>TIA,
>>
>>Joe
>
>
>
> The debris may be a cracked spark plug insulator that flew around in
> the cylinder and broke into many smaller pieces. They can crack when a
> small coolant leak hits the hot spark plug.
>
> The resulting dings in your combustion chamber create many sharp edges
> that could get excessively hot and cause preignition. Perhaps the shop
> could bead blast the chamber surface before doing necessary valve seat
> and guide work. That would be an acceptable repair for fairly low
> cost.
>
> Toyota MDT in MO
>

The source of the debris has been identified. As soon as I pulled the
valve, it was clear that the valve seat insert had broken apart. See
picture.

http://www.gone2maui.com/Pictures/HeadDamage_1.jpg

What do you think of the messed-up head? Are we talking salvage yard here?

--
Joe

If you didn't have access to another head you could polish off the high
bits, blend it it and have slightly lower compression in that cylinder.
I've done that on heads that were somewhat irreplaceable and had no issues
at all with the "repair". But the cost of putting in a new valve seat and a
valve job is probably a lot higher than the cost of putting on a used head.

Brian


"Joe S" > wrote in message
news:QSQXd.33161$uc.10822@trnddc09...
> Comboverfish wrote:
>> Joe S wrote:
>>
>>>Some metal debris (I don't yet know source....perhaps a valve guide
>>>disintegrated? Will know more tonight.) has resulted in a couple
>>>hundred dings on the head for that cylinder. Some I would even call
>>>gashes.
>>>
>>>Before I bother to take it to a machine shop, I thought I'd ask if I
>>>should bother to take it to a machine shop. (-;
>>>
>>>I'm thinking that either it can be left alone and will run okay, or
>>>have the dings smoothed out a bit, or maybe it's possible to fill
>>>gashes in some way (forgive my ignorance as to whether a shop can
>>>typically weld aluminum to fill) or whether I just have to find a
>>>replacement head? Obviously, if this head is repairable, it'll get
>>>valve job too.
>>>
>>>This is on a 94 Merc Tracer aka Ford Escort. I don't want to spend
>>
>> alot
>>
>>>of dough...it's just a utility vehicle with alot of miles and I'd
>>
>> like
>>
>>>to get another 20k miles (or more) out of it for cheap.
>>>
>>>TIA,
>>>
>>>Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> The debris may be a cracked spark plug insulator that flew around in
>> the cylinder and broke into many smaller pieces. They can crack when a
>> small coolant leak hits the hot spark plug.
>>
>> The resulting dings in your combustion chamber create many sharp edges
>> that could get excessively hot and cause preignition. Perhaps the shop
>> could bead blast the chamber surface before doing necessary valve seat
>> and guide work. That would be an acceptable repair for fairly low
>> cost.
>>
>> Toyota MDT in MO
>>
>
> The source of the debris has been identified. As soon as I pulled the
> valve, it was clear that the valve seat insert had broken apart. See
> picture.
>
> http://www.gone2maui.com/Pictures/HeadDamage_1.jpg
>
> What do you think of the messed-up head? Are we talking salvage yard here?
>
> --
> Joe

Joe S wrote:
> Comboverfish wrote:
> > Joe S wrote:
> >
> >>Some metal debris (I don't yet know source....perhaps a valve guide
> >>disintegrated? Will know more tonight.) has resulted in a couple
> >>hundred dings on the head for that cylinder. Some I would even call
> >>gashes.
> >>
> >>Before I bother to take it to a machine shop, I thought I'd ask if
I
> >>should bother to take it to a machine shop. (-;
> >>
> >>I'm thinking that either it can be left alone and will run okay, or
> >>have the dings smoothed out a bit, or maybe it's possible to fill
> >>gashes in some way (forgive my ignorance as to whether a shop can
> >>typically weld aluminum to fill) or whether I just have to find a
> >>replacement head? Obviously, if this head is repairable, it'll get
> >>valve job too.
> >>
> >>This is on a 94 Merc Tracer aka Ford Escort. I don't want to spend
> >
> > alot
> >
> >>of dough...it's just a utility vehicle with alot of miles and I'd
> >
> > like
> >
> >>to get another 20k miles (or more) out of it for cheap.
> >>
> >>TIA,
> >>
> >>Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > The debris may be a cracked spark plug insulator that flew around
in
> > the cylinder and broke into many smaller pieces. They can crack
when a
> > small coolant leak hits the hot spark plug.
> >
> > The resulting dings in your combustion chamber create many sharp
edges
> > that could get excessively hot and cause preignition. Perhaps the
shop
> > could bead blast the chamber surface before doing necessary valve
seat
> > and guide work. That would be an acceptable repair for fairly low
> > cost.
> >
> > Toyota MDT in MO
> >
>
> The source of the debris has been identified. As soon as I pulled the

> valve, it was clear that the valve seat insert had broken apart. See
> picture.
>
> http://www.gone2maui.com/Pictures/HeadDamage_1.jpg
>
> What do you think of the messed-up head? Are we talking salvage yard
here?
>
> --
> Joe

Personally I'd be tempted to look for another used head. How's the
piston crown and bore?

nate

>
> http://www.gone2maui.com/Pictures/HeadDamage_1.jpg
>
> What do you think of the messed-up head? Are we talking salvage yard here?
>
> --
> Joe

As long as it isn't cracked, I believe you can smoothe it out and live with
it, since you don't want to spend much money on it. It is really hard to
tell, from the photo, how extensive the damage is....it may be largely
cosmetic.

>
> http://www.gone2maui.com/Pictures/HeadDamage_1.jpg
>
> What do you think of the messed-up head? Are we talking salvage yard here?
>
> --
> Joe
I would not use any JB Weld, plastic aluminum, etc...That would not hold up
under the conditions inside the chamber.

As long as the head isn't cracked, I believe you can smoothe it out and live
with
it, since you don't want to spend much money on it. It is really hard to
tell, from the photo, how extensive the damage is....it may be largely
cosmetic.

After seeing the photo, I'd head straight to a salvage yard and look for
a head. You're going to have the expense of a new valve seat insert
already, and the gouging is clearly enough to affect compression on that
cylinder.

Joe S wrote:

> What do you think of the messed-up head? Are we talking salvage yard
here?
>
> --
> Joe

Oh yeah! It's time for a salvage or reman head. If you have a good
machine shop you might take your "new" salvage head to them and request
the absolute minimum work done. You might get by with a resurface and
new valve seals (you could do those yourself). Of course the shop we
sublet to conveniently finds something wrong with valves and seats on
every head we send them, and we have to tell them exactly what we want
done to keep the cost down.

I wonder if seats dropping are common on this year/engine. I assume
you have the 1.9 Ford engine vs the 1.8 Mazda. I haven't seen 1.9s do
this but nothing would surprise me with that boat anchor.

Toyota MDT in MO

"Joe S" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Some metal debris (I don't yet know source....perhaps a valve guide
> disintegrated? Will know more tonight.) has resulted in a couple
> hundred dings on the head for that cylinder. Some I would even call
> gashes.
>
> Before I bother to take it to a machine shop, I thought I'd ask if I
> should bother to take it to a machine shop. (-;

I'd take it to the machine shop. Perhaps they can weld it. At the least they'll
let you know what is feasible or not