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Will TDI ever be available CA, NY, MA, ME?
Has anyone heard if the TDI will be available in the upcoming model
year (2005) in the 5 or 6 states that it's been "not available" in 2003/2004? In particular California? With fuel prices averaging almost $2.5/gal in some parts of the state, like the Bay Area and San Diego, I've got to get something with the best possible fuel economy, but don't want to go "hybrid" (Prius/Insight) until that technology has had a few more years to mature. The TDI engine has been around a long time and the Golf seems like a nice enough car, although I have been told that it's no longer available with the diesel engine in the two-door version (which I would prefer). It's maddening to know that I can buy a TDI just 130 miles away in Carson City, Nevada, but not here in central California. |
"lgcharlot" > wrote in message
m... > Has anyone heard if the TDI will be available in the upcoming model > year (2005) in the 5 or 6 states that it's been "not available" in > 2003/2004? In particular California? With fuel prices averaging almost > $2.5/gal in some parts of the state, like the Bay Area and San Diego, > I've got to get something with the best possible fuel economy, but > don't want to go "hybrid" (Prius/Insight) until that technology has > had a few more years to mature. The TDI engine has been around a long > time and the Golf seems like a nice enough car, although I have been > told that it's no longer available with the diesel engine in the > two-door version (which I would prefer). It's maddening to know that > I can buy a TDI just 130 miles away in Carson City, Nevada, but not > here in central California. I think it requires the low-sulphur fuel which I don't think arrives for at least another year or two. yes you can buy a TDI in a neighboring state but I think California has managed to make it difficult by requiring that the car have 7500 miles on it before it's considered "used" and you can bring it in w/o trouble. You might have to find a friend in another state who will let you use his/her address to register the car for the first year there while you rack up some miles and then you later "move" to California. :) |
No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif
Emissions Certified. Should you try and get around your Calif residency, you will need to be a cash buyer, as financing will be impossible to obtain, and you will need an out of state residence address to use. In addition, you would get the double hit for sales taxes, as Calif will come after you for the 7.xx% upon bringing a car from out of state. You can bring in a used TDI, that has over 7500 miles on the odometer and save the depreciation hit as well, as well as paying only for Calif taxes. "lgcharlot" > wrote in message m... > Has anyone heard if the TDI will be available in the upcoming model > year (2005) in the 5 or 6 states that it's been "not available" in > 2003/2004? In particular California? With fuel prices averaging almost > $2.5/gal in some parts of the state, like the Bay Area and San Diego, > I've got to get something with the best possible fuel economy, but > don't want to go "hybrid" (Prius/Insight) until that technology has > had a few more years to mature. The TDI engine has been around a long > time and the Golf seems like a nice enough car, although I have been > told that it's no longer available with the diesel engine in the > two-door version (which I would prefer). It's maddening to know that > I can buy a TDI just 130 miles away in Carson City, Nevada, but not > here in central California. |
I'm pretty sure you can buy TDIs in California. Saw several Jettas last
summer on the dealer lot in South San Francisco. rgds Joel lgcharlot wrote: > Has anyone heard if the TDI will be available in the upcoming model > year (2005) in the 5 or 6 states that it's been "not available" in > 2003/2004? In particular California? With fuel prices averaging almost > $2.5/gal in some parts of the state, like the Bay Area and San Diego, > I've got to get something with the best possible fuel economy, but > don't want to go "hybrid" (Prius/Insight) until that technology has > had a few more years to mature. The TDI engine has been around a long > time and the Golf seems like a nice enough car, although I have been > told that it's no longer available with the diesel engine in the > two-door version (which I would prefer). It's maddening to know that > I can buy a TDI just 130 miles away in Carson City, Nevada, but not > here in central California. |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article > , Larry > wrote: >No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif >Emissions Certified. _ That's nonsense. They were available in 2002. The reason they have largely disappeared from California lots is the Toureg and California's fleet pollution regulations. VW makes a lot more money on Touregs than TDI Golfs. But they can't sell both and meet the fleet polution standards, so very few TDI's if any are shipped to California. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQY/NK2TWTAjn5N/lAQGyqAQAr/qhSojKASiACMKkdMd1uVFImMU1hwBn 6RuhqKpUWWd/Gd2pzJanboSvnKJGVZVmCM5QqnRN6Ooc83nNvhR1fEfKa4cVEp at 8KgLwt0p4I+EDEqiRrCAbcbgrUtPW7w0tNvcFLql1Vot+MbImf zEhK0dRP64Bjnt rHhReiAywhw= =SYE5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
Booker C. Bense wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > In article > , > Larry > wrote: > >>No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif >>Emissions Certified. > > > _ That's nonsense. They were available in 2002. The reason they > have largely disappeared from California lots is the Toureg and > California's fleet pollution regulations. VW makes a lot more > money on Touregs than TDI Golfs. But they can't sell both and > meet the fleet polution standards, so very few TDI's if any are > shipped to California. According to vw.com, neither 1.9 TDI nor V10 TDI models are available in CA, NY, MA, VT, or ME. -- Mike Smith |
You can buy 2004 and earlier TDI's...just not 2005 models. See www.vw.com
for further proof. "Joel Spencer" > wrote in message ... > I'm pretty sure you can buy TDIs in California. Saw several Jettas last > summer on the dealer lot in South San Francisco. > > rgds > Joel > > > lgcharlot wrote: >> Has anyone heard if the TDI will be available in the upcoming model >> year (2005) in the 5 or 6 states that it's been "not available" in >> 2003/2004? In particular California? With fuel prices averaging almost >> $2.5/gal in some parts of the state, like the Bay Area and San Diego, >> I've got to get something with the best possible fuel economy, but >> don't want to go "hybrid" (Prius/Insight) until that technology has >> had a few more years to mature. The TDI engine has been around a long >> time and the Golf seems like a nice enough car, although I have been >> told that it's no longer available with the diesel engine in the >> two-door version (which I would prefer). It's maddening to know that >> I can buy a TDI just 130 miles away in Carson City, Nevada, but not >> here in central California. |
Typical California logic... How is a car going to pollute any less
once it has 7500 miles on it?? There have to be some REAL geniuses running that state... I keep hoping for the day that an earthquake causes the entire state to break off and float away... Booker C. Bense <bbense+rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled.Nov.08.04@ telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote in message >... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > In article > , > Larry > wrote: > >No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif > >Emissions Certified. > > _ That's nonsense. They were available in 2002. The reason they > have largely disappeared from California lots is the Toureg and > California's fleet pollution regulations. VW makes a lot more > money on Touregs than TDI Golfs. But they can't sell both and > meet the fleet polution standards, so very few TDI's if any are > shipped to California. > > _ Booker C. Bense > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.2 > > iQCVAwUBQY/NK2TWTAjn5N/lAQGyqAQAr/qhSojKASiACMKkdMd1uVFImMU1hwBn > 6RuhqKpUWWd/Gd2pzJanboSvnKJGVZVmCM5QqnRN6Ooc83nNvhR1fEfKa4cVEp at > 8KgLwt0p4I+EDEqiRrCAbcbgrUtPW7w0tNvcFLql1Vot+MbImf zEhK0dRP64Bjnt > rHhReiAywhw= > =SYE5 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
Tony Kimmell wrote:
> Typical California logic... How is a car going to pollute any less > once it has 7500 miles on it?? There have to be some REAL geniuses > running that state... Indeed. Cali has boutique gas formu's, too - in NoCal the stuff is refined literally 15 miles away, and when we lived in SoCal they were even pumping some it right there in the basin. Still, prices are near $.50 above everywhere else b/c of the silly laws. > > I keep hoping for the day that an earthquake causes the entire state > to break off and float away... I would love that. Just moved to Yuma, Arizona, and I dearly miss the ocean!! rgds Joel > > > Booker C. Bense <bbense+rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled.Nov.08.04@ telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote in message >... > >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> >>In article > , >>Larry > wrote: >> >>>No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif >>>Emissions Certified. >> >>_ That's nonsense. They were available in 2002. The reason they >>have largely disappeared from California lots is the Toureg and >>California's fleet pollution regulations. VW makes a lot more >>money on Touregs than TDI Golfs. But they can't sell both and >>meet the fleet polution standards, so very few TDI's if any are >>shipped to California. >> >>_ Booker C. Bense >> >> >> >> >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>Version: 2.6.2 >> >>iQCVAwUBQY/NK2TWTAjn5N/lAQGyqAQAr/qhSojKASiACMKkdMd1uVFImMU1hwBn >>6RuhqKpUWWd/Gd2pzJanboSvnKJGVZVmCM5QqnRN6Ooc83nNvhR1fEfKa4cVEp at >>8KgLwt0p4I+EDEqiRrCAbcbgrUtPW7w0tNvcFLql1Vot+MbI mfzEhK0dRP64Bjnt >>rHhReiAywhw= >>=SYE5 >>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
>I keep hoping for the day that an earthquake causes the entire state
>to break off and float away... Gee thanks from us here in Cali. I'm not really sure why anyone who lives elsewhere would care what we do here in California. Although the emissions and related laws here seem ridiculous, keep in mind that this is literally the car capitol of the world. The average family owns 2 cars in this state and nearly 40 million people live here. The pollution in Los Angeles and the surrounding areas has gotten nearly 70% BETTER since the late 1960s and that's largely the result of the seemingly silly laws. And the bottom line is that the market for cars like TDIs is so small that few people know or care about the regulations. Steve Grauman |
>Indeed. Cali has boutique gas formu's, too - in NoCal the stuff is
>refined literally 15 miles away, and when we lived in SoCal they were >even pumping some it right there in the basin. I was discussing this with someone a few days ago. The refinary is less than an hour from were I live here in Souther California, but gas here is anywhere from 25 cents to nearly a dollar more than it was when we visited Arizona in July, and again 3 weeks ago. Why it's so much higher 45 minutes from the refinary than it is 7 or 8 hours from the refinary is beyond me. Steve Grauman |
"Joel Spencer" > wrote in message
... > I'm pretty sure you can buy TDIs in California. Saw several Jettas last > summer on the dealer lot in South San Francisco. No you can't. TDIs were no longer available here starting with 2004 models when the 100hp PD version of the 1.9TDI (golf/jetta) and 134hp 2.0 PD TDI version (passat). The ones you saw were either brought in from out of state or were 2003 or older. |
"Larry" > wrote in message
om... > You can buy 2004 and earlier TDI's...just not 2005 models. See www.vw.com > for further proof. You couldn't buy the 2004s either. 2003 was the last year here. The PD engine (appeared for '04) cannot be had as new in CA. |
"Booker C. Bense"
<bbense+rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled.Nov.08.04@ telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote in message ... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > In article > , > Larry > wrote: >>No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif >>Emissions Certified. > > _ That's nonsense. They were available in 2002 and 2002 isn't "new". |
"Tony Kimmell" > wrote in message om... > Typical California logic... How is a car going to pollute any less > once it has 7500 miles on it?? There have to be some REAL geniuses > running that state... > > I keep hoping for the day that an earthquake causes the entire state > to break off and float away... > Based on your post in teh no CAT thread, please do us all a favor and make sure you are at least visiting out there when it does.... |
In article >,
Steve Grauman > wrote: >I was discussing this with someone a few days ago. The refinary is less than an >hour from were I live here in Souther California, but gas here is anywhere from >25 cents to nearly a dollar more than it was when we visited Arizona in July, >and again 3 weeks ago. Why it's so much higher 45 minutes from the refinary >than it is 7 or 8 hours from the refinary is beyond me. Higher demand, relative to supply. Consider refinery capacity (that is making the CARB fuel) and the preponderance of gas guzzling vehicles. Fuel economy does not appear to be a high priority among most vehicle buyers in California (yes, there are few buying Priuses, wondering how to get TDIs, or buying small cars specifically for fuel economy, but that number is dwarfed by those buying giant SUVs and the like). -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message. |
>Fuel economy does not appear to be a high priority among most vehicle
>buyers in California True, and another reason why the seemingly silly emissions laws are in effect in such number here. And another reason why gas made for California isn't as good as what's sold in a lot of the rest of the country. Steve Grauman |
Steve Grauman wrote:
>>Fuel economy does not appear to be a high priority among most vehicle >>buyers in California > > > True, and another reason why the seemingly silly emissions laws are in effect > in such number here. I dunno about that. Even the biggest, thirstiest SUV made today is much, much cleaner than just about any car from the '70s or '80s. The problem isn't all the *new* cars, it's all the *old* ones. -- Mike Smith |
"Mike Smith" > wrote in message ... > Steve Grauman wrote: > > >>Fuel economy does not appear to be a high priority among most vehicle > >>buyers in California > > > > > > True, and another reason why the seemingly silly emissions laws are in effect > > in such number here. > > I dunno about that. Even the biggest, thirstiest SUV made today is > much, much cleaner than just about any car from the '70s or '80s. The > problem isn't all the *new* cars, it's all the *old* ones. > > -- > Mike Smith You're missing a vital point he If they burn more fuel, they HAVE to emit more HC's, NOx, etc....for stoichiometry, you put more in you will get more out. |
Mike Smith wrote: > Booker C. Bense wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> >> In article > , >> Larry > wrote: >> >>> No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif >>> Emissions Certified. >> >> >> >> _ That's nonsense. They were available in 2002. The reason they >> have largely disappeared from California lots is the Toureg and >> California's fleet pollution regulations. VW makes a lot more >> money on Touregs than TDI Golfs. But they can't sell both and >> meet the fleet polution standards, so very few TDI's if any are >> shipped to California. > > > According to vw.com, neither 1.9 TDI nor V10 TDI models are available in > CA, NY, MA, VT, or ME. Though, not due to government regulations. If the car is 50-state compliant, you can haul it in and drive it with a few hundred dollars in state-to-state transfer fees. Las Vegas is a good place to look - tons of used and new TDIs and a short drive to California. |
Joseph Oberlander wrote: <snip> > > According to vw.com, neither 1.9 TDI nor V10 TDI models are available in > > CA, NY, MA, VT, or ME. > > Though, not due to government regulations. If the car is 50-state > compliant, you can haul it in and drive it with a few hundred > dollars in state-to-state transfer fees. And that is just the thing, TDIs are not 50 state compliant. You could haul a 2004 TDI to California and you could drive it there, but you can not register it there as a new vehicle. This is not because diesels are banned in CA or the other states mentioned, these states just hold diesel cars to emission standards they can't meet, at least not with the diesel fuel currently available. |
"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message link.net... > > > Mike Smith wrote: > >> Booker C. Bense wrote: >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> >>> In article > , >>> Larry > wrote: >>> >>>> No...you can't bring in a "new" TDI to Calif, as the car is not Calif >>>> Emissions Certified. >>> >>> >>> >>> _ That's nonsense. They were available in 2002. The reason they >>> have largely disappeared from California lots is the Toureg and >>> California's fleet pollution regulations. VW makes a lot more >>> money on Touregs than TDI Golfs. But they can't sell both and >>> meet the fleet polution standards, so very few TDI's if any are >>> shipped to California. >> >> >> According to vw.com, neither 1.9 TDI nor V10 TDI models are available in >> CA, NY, MA, VT, or ME. > > Though, not due to government regulations. If the car is 50-state > compliant, you can haul it in and drive it with a few hundred > dollars in state-to-state transfer fees. > > Las Vegas is a good place to look - tons of used and new TDIs > and a short drive to California. There is no VW that is 50 state compliant. For those of us that live in Calif or the NE states, there is a $150 emissions charge on any new VW model or engine option. VW's meet federal emission standards, which is different than 50 state emissions standards. I also believe that the reason the diesels are not emissions certified, is that Calif and the NE states are waiting for new regulations on diesel fuel quality to take effect in the next year or so. |
I don't know what the big deal is about diesel cars in these four
states.I guess they just want you to spend more money on overpriced gasoline,and how many people buy diesel cars to actually claim it's a hazard to the environment as they say. |
> wrote in message ... > I don't know what the big deal is about diesel cars in these four > states.I guess they just want you to spend more money on overpriced > gasoline,and how many people buy diesel cars to actually claim it's a > hazard to the environment as they say. > Here in Ohio, diesel costs more anyway...Certain emmisions are better with diesel, others arent, like actual carbon particulate, and I believe HC's are much higher with diesels. |
>I dunno about that. Even the biggest, thirstiest SUV made today is
>much, much cleaner than just about any car from the '70s or '80s. The >problem isn't all the *new* cars, it's all the *old* ones. > While that's true, the new SUVs still aren't great. And because many of them classify as trucks, not as cars, the emissions requirements aren't as strict. The air quality has gotten better here since the early 1970s, partly because of the new laws. Steve Grauman |
"Biz" > wrote in message
... >You're missing a vital point he If they burn more fuel, they HAVE to >emit more HC's, NOx, etc....for stoichiometry, you put more in you will get >more out. At the immediate exhaust ports at the engine, yes, but you also need to count that what goes out is then processed by the catalytic converter. There's more going on than just how much fuel is burned. |
"Biz" > writes:
>"Mike Smith" > wrote in message ... >> Steve Grauman wrote: >> >> >>Fuel economy does not appear to be a high priority among most vehicle >> >>buyers in California >> > True, and another reason why the seemingly silly emissions laws >> > are in effect in such number here. >> I dunno about that. Even the biggest, thirstiest SUV made today is >> much, much cleaner than just about any car from the '70s or '80s. The >> problem isn't all the *new* cars, it's all the *old* ones. >You're missing a vital point he If they burn more fuel, they >HAVE to emit more HC's, NOx, etc....for stoichiometry, you put more >in you will get more out. Doesn't hold for the diesel. Nor stratified-charge gasoline engine. A diesel engine typically operates at lean to very lean mixture. Power output is regulated by varying the quantity of fuel injected. Air quantity at a given engine speed is constant. Because diesels operate in excess air, there's the propensity to generate more NOx, but much less HC and CO. Under low load however, which is where the engines typically operate in a passenger car, the vast amount of excess air keeps the combustion process sufficiently-cool to keep NOx levels low, even without post-combustion exhaust gas treatment. Catalytic converters and even particulate filters are becoming more common for diesel engines in passenger cars. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! |
Randolph wrote: > Joseph Oberlander wrote: > > <snip> > >>>According to vw.com, neither 1.9 TDI nor V10 TDI models are available in >>>CA, NY, MA, VT, or ME. >> >>Though, not due to government regulations. If the car is 50-state >>compliant, you can haul it in and drive it with a few hundred >>dollars in state-to-state transfer fees. > > > And that is just the thing, TDIs are not 50 state compliant. You could > haul a 2004 TDI to California and you could drive it there, but you can > not register it there as a new vehicle. This is not because diesels are > banned in CA or the other states mentioned, these states just hold > diesel cars to emission standards they can't meet, at least not with the > diesel fuel currently available. But - California is poised to change fuels soon. Instant compliance :) |
Matt B. wrote: > "Biz" > wrote in message > ... > >>You're missing a vital point he If they burn more fuel, they HAVE to >>emit more HC's, NOx, etc....for stoichiometry, you put more in you will get >>more out. > > > At the immediate exhaust ports at the engine, yes, but you also need to > count that what goes out is then processed by the catalytic converter. > There's more going on than just how much fuel is burned. The problem is they measure PPM and not PP*mile*. A car that puts out 30 NOx and gets 15mpg isn't as clean as a one that puts out 50 NOx and gets 35mpg. SUVs put out much more net pollution than most small cars. |
"Matt B." > wrote in message news:OSCkd.98770$cJ3.93837@fed1read06... > "Biz" > wrote in message > ... > >You're missing a vital point he If they burn more fuel, they HAVE to > >emit more HC's, NOx, etc....for stoichiometry, you put more in you will get > >more out. > > At the immediate exhaust ports at the engine, yes, but you also need to > count that what goes out is then processed by the catalytic converter. > There's more going on than just how much fuel is burned. > > And hence you validate my post, I was responding to a guy who said cats dont matter, without that chemical reaction taking place in teh cat, much higher emisson figures. |
"Biz" > wrote in message
... >And hence you validate my post, I was responding to a guy who said cats >dont matter, without that chemical reaction taking place in teh cat, much >higher emisson figures. Yes...I agree w/you there. All other things equall they *do* have a function. |
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Alex Rodriguez wrote: > In article >, > says... > > >>I dunno about that. Even the biggest, thirstiest SUV made today is >>much, much cleaner than just about any car from the '70s or '80s. The >>problem isn't all the *new* cars, it's all the *old* ones. > > > If only that was true. The number of older cars is very tiny compared with > the number of newer cars on the road. So the problem is not old cars. They > contribute only a tiny bit to all the pollution in the air. So what *is* the problem? A: Trucks. All those diesel trucks without smog controls on them. |
We have major air quality issues here affecting Los Angeles and the Central
Valley, due to the high mountains that traps air particulents. It affects issues as simple as buying charcoal lighter fluid in stores and the use of gasoline lawn mowers and edgers. Diesel fuel is running about the same price as gasoline, BTW, so both types of fuel are overpriced. :) Even non fuel related activities, such as ag activities that put dust in the air are subject to upcoming regulations by the EPA. > wrote in message ... >I don't know what the big deal is about diesel cars in these four > states.I guess they just want you to spend more money on overpriced > gasoline,and how many people buy diesel cars to actually claim it's a > hazard to the environment as they say. > |
Alex Rodriguez wrote: > > In article >, > says... > > >I dunno about that. Even the biggest, thirstiest SUV made today is > >much, much cleaner than just about any car from the '70s or '80s. The > >problem isn't all the *new* cars, it's all the *old* ones. > > If only that was true. The number of older cars is very tiny compared with > the number of newer cars on the road. So the problem is not old cars. They > contribute only a tiny bit to all the pollution in the air. > ------------- > Alex I believe it. In the southern coastal area of California in 1998, light duty vehicles 15 years or older accounted for 11% of miles driven, but 39% of NOx and ROG (reactive organic gases) emitted from light duty vehicles. Source: http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/...MR1256.ch1.pdf. |
Alex Rodriguez wrote: > > In article >, > says... > > >I dunno about that. Even the biggest, thirstiest SUV made today is > >much, much cleaner than just about any car from the '70s or '80s. The > >problem isn't all the *new* cars, it's all the *old* ones. > > If only that was true. The number of older cars is very tiny compared with > the number of newer cars on the road. So the problem is not old cars. They > contribute only a tiny bit to all the pollution in the air. > ------------- > Alex I believe it. In the southern coastal area of California in 1998, light duty vehicles 15 years or older accounted for 11% of miles driven, but 39% of NOx and ROG (reactive organic gases) emitted from light duty vehicles. Source: http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/...MR1256.ch1.pdf. |
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