Intermittent stall 92 Century
 

Arggg I'm so flustrated......

Car:
92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles

Problem:
Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
motor is cold.

What Ive done so far:
Replaced battery.
Replaced battery cables.
Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
Replaced MAP sensor.
Replaced ECU.
Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.


KenG

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:21:10 GMT, KENG > wrote:

>Arggg I'm so flustrated......
>
>Car:
>92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles
>
>Problem:
>Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
>turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
>stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
>stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
>I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
>this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
>only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
>is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
>motor is cold.
>
>What Ive done so far:
>Replaced battery.
>Replaced battery cables.
>Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
>Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
>Replaced MAP sensor.
>Replaced ECU.
>Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.
>
>
>KenG

I don't see anything in here about the fuel delivery system..........

You should have a fuel pressure regulator
You should have a clean fuel filter
you should have a fuel pump supplying sufficient flow to the engine at
the correct pressure.

This is *classic* fuel starvation symptom.

Lg

I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation
issue, with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of
the trigger or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there
is no in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels
like a stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs
keep the motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel
pump has a low delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be
alternately surging and bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same
symptoms, with the exception that it would likely be worse at higher
throttle/speed, and near normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be
similar. Intermittent signal to the pump would have some run-on after
the pump stopped. There is no lead up to the events, it's running
perfect one moment, then it is not running AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary
number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn 15 times then it will
continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can even feel it on
decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure regulator
dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later,
pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some
testing in that area, since it is more easily checked.

KenG

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:21:10 GMT, KENG > wrote:
>
>
>>Arggg I'm so flustrated......
>>
>>Car:
>>92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles
>>
>>Problem:
>>Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
>>turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
>>stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
>>stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
>>I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
>>this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
>>only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
>>is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
>>motor is cold.
>>
>>What Ive done so far:
>>Replaced battery.
>>Replaced battery cables.
>>Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
>>Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
>>Replaced MAP sensor.
>>Replaced ECU.
>>Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.
>>
>>
>>KenG
>
>
> I don't see anything in here about the fuel delivery system..........
>
> You should have a fuel pressure regulator
> You should have a clean fuel filter
> you should have a fuel pump supplying sufficient flow to the engine at
> the correct pressure.
>
> This is *classic* fuel starvation symptom.
>
> Lg
>

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:37:50 GMT, KENG > wrote:

>I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation
>issue, with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of
>the trigger or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there
>is no in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels
>like a stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs
>keep the motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel
>pump has a low delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be
>alternately surging and bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same
> symptoms, with the exception that it would likely be worse at higher
>throttle/speed, and near normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be
>similar. Intermittent signal to the pump would have some run-on after
>the pump stopped. There is no lead up to the events, it's running
>perfect one moment, then it is not running AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary
>number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn 15 times then it will
>continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can even feel it on
>decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure regulator
>dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later,
>pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some
>testing in that area, since it is more easily checked.
>
>KenG

I'm sorry I don't know. I suspect low fuel pressure, or sticking
throttle plate. On my car ( lucky me ) I can see if this happens with
my flight recorder ( Davis Carchip e/x ). I notice one time
OVERpressure from fuel pump just at startup, but then engine normaled
out, and it only happened once.

It is going to -1F and I suspect there was ice in the fuel line, that
is my idea. That caused a surge in pressure until it was cleared from
the system. It is just my explantion of what "possibly" happened with
my car.

As Don Bruder says, it is difficult to diagnose some thing *long
distance* when you can't see the car, and to be honest, I don't want
to see any cars at this temperature outside ;-)

I don't know where you live, but if it is up North where I am, that
fuel pump might be fighting ice in the fuel lines. So, you can put
HEET into your gas tank, or something like that which is O2 sensor
Safe. At this temperature, no car engine likes to be started and even
when it is, you have nothing to keep your fuel lines from freezing.

Lg


>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:21:10 GMT, KENG > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Arggg I'm so flustrated......
>>>
>>>Car:
>>>92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles
>>>
>>>Problem:
>>>Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
>>>turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
>>>stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
>>>stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
>>>I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
>>>this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
>>>only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
>>>is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
>>>motor is cold.
>>>
>>>What Ive done so far:
>>>Replaced battery.
>>>Replaced battery cables.
>>>Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
>>>Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
>>>Replaced MAP sensor.
>>>Replaced ECU.
>>>Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.
>>>
>>>
>>>KenG
>>
>>
>> I don't see anything in here about the fuel delivery system..........
>>
>> You should have a fuel pressure regulator
>> You should have a clean fuel filter
>> you should have a fuel pump supplying sufficient flow to the engine at
>> the correct pressure.
>>
>> This is *classic* fuel starvation symptom.
>>
>> Lg
>>

"KENG" > wrote in message
. com...
>I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation issue,
>with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of the trigger
>or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there is no
>in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels like a
>stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs keep the
>motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel pump has a low
>delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be alternately surging and
>bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same symptoms, with the
>exception that it would likely be worse at higher throttle/speed, and near
>normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be similar. Intermittent signal to
>the pump would have some run-on after the pump stopped. There is no lead
>up to the events, it's running perfect one moment, then it is not running
>AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn
>15 times then it will continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can
>even feel it on decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure
>regulator dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later,
>pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some
>testing in that area, since it is more easily checked.
>
> KenG

It's pretty obvious to me that you have much more knowledge about your
problem then Glickman does. He repaired his own car once and now likes to
bore everyone with his wild assed guesses Although checking fuel pressure
is never a bad idea when dealing with a drivability problem, I don't believe
you'll find your problem there. I didn't see any mention of crankshaft
position sensor on your list of replaced items... have you checked it? Good
luck, intermittent, no code problems can be a bitch but I think you're on
the right track.
Bob

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:37:02 -0600, "Bob" > wrote:

>It's pretty obvious to me that you have much more knowledge about your
>problem then Glickman does.

It is pretty obvious to me that Ken has much more knowledge about his
problem than Bob does. In fact, "Bob" has never even SEEN Ken's car.
He wouldn't know it was Ken's car if he walked into it.

> He repaired his own car once and now likes to
>bore everyone with his wild assed guesses Although checking fuel pressure
>is never a bad idea when dealing with a drivability problem, I don't believe
>you'll find your problem there. I didn't see any mention of crankshaft
>position sensor on your list of replaced items... have you checked it? Good
>luck, intermittent, no code problems can be a bitch but I think you're on
>the right track.
> Bob
>
>

You're a ****wit. ESAD.

Lg

KENG wrote:
>
> Arggg I'm so flustrated......
>
> Car:
> 92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles
>
> Problem:
> Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
> turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
> stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
> stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
> I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
> this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
> only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
> is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
> motor is cold.
>
> What Ive done so far:
> Replaced battery.
> Replaced battery cables.
> Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
> Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
> Replaced MAP sensor.
> Replaced ECU.
> Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.
>
> KenG

Randomly replacing parts can get expensive.
However, if I was allowed to replace only ONE part on your car,
it would be the crank sensor.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 04:35:12 GMT, "« Paul »" <"
> wrote:

>KENG wrote:
>>
>> Arggg I'm so flustrated......
>>
>> Car:
>> 92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles
>>
>> Problem:
>> Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
>> turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
>> stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
>> stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
>> I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
>> this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
>> only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
>> is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
>> motor is cold.
>>
>> What Ive done so far:
>> Replaced battery.
>> Replaced battery cables.
>> Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
>> Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
>> Replaced MAP sensor.
>> Replaced ECU.
>> Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.
>>
>> KenG
>
>Randomly replacing parts can get expensive.
>However, if I was allowed to replace only ONE part on your car,
>it would be the crank sensor.

Don't you think he can measure the voltage from that crank sensor
before going through all the trouble to replace it? Really.

Why replace something if it is not part of the problem. His job now,
if the crank sensor is under suspicion, is to INVESTIGATE. Put a
scope meter on the output and turn the car over, and see if he is
getting 700 millivolts or better. If he is, he can FORGET about
replacing the crank sensor.

Lg

"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 04:35:12 GMT, "« Paul »" <"
> > wrote:
>
>>KENG wrote:
>>>
>>> Arggg I'm so flustrated......
>>>
>>> Car:
>>> 92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles
>>>
>>> Problem:
>>> Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
>>> turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
>>> stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
>>> stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
>>> I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
>>> this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
>>> only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
>>> is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
>>> motor is cold.
>>>
>>> What Ive done so far:
>>> Replaced battery.
>>> Replaced battery cables.
>>> Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
>>> Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
>>> Replaced MAP sensor.
>>> Replaced ECU.
>>> Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.
>>>
>>> KenG
>>
>>Randomly replacing parts can get expensive.
>>However, if I was allowed to replace only ONE part on your car,
>>it would be the crank sensor.
>
> Don't you think he can measure the voltage from that crank sensor
> before going through all the trouble to replace it? Really.
>
> Why replace something if it is not part of the problem. His job now,
> if the crank sensor is under suspicion, is to INVESTIGATE. Put a
> scope meter on the output and turn the car over, and see if he is
> getting 700 millivolts or better. If he is, he can FORGET about
> replacing the crank sensor.
>
> Lg
>
ROFLMFAO..... sure thing Larry...... any crank sensor putting out 700mv or
better is good! hahaha. You don't know enough about drivability problems to
even waste my time on, in other words you're even more of a dumb ass than I
originally thought............
Bob

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:19:07 -0600, "Bob" > wrote:

>
>"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 04:35:12 GMT, "« Paul »" <"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>KENG wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Arggg I'm so flustrated......
>>>>
>>>> Car:
>>>> 92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles
>>>>
>>>> Problem:
>>>> Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was
>>>> turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it
>>>> stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then
>>>> stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If
>>>> I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does
>>>> this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but
>>>> only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving
>>>> is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the
>>>> motor is cold.
>>>>
>>>> What Ive done so far:
>>>> Replaced battery.
>>>> Replaced battery cables.
>>>> Installed grounds from block to trans to body.
>>>> Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors.
>>>> Replaced MAP sensor.
>>>> Replaced ECU.
>>>> Replaced Ignition control/coil pack.
>>>>
>>>> KenG
>>>
>>>Randomly replacing parts can get expensive.
>>>However, if I was allowed to replace only ONE part on your car,
>>>it would be the crank sensor.
>>
>> Don't you think he can measure the voltage from that crank sensor
>> before going through all the trouble to replace it? Really.
>>
>> Why replace something if it is not part of the problem. His job now,
>> if the crank sensor is under suspicion, is to INVESTIGATE. Put a
>> scope meter on the output and turn the car over, and see if he is
>> getting 700 millivolts or better. If he is, he can FORGET about
>> replacing the crank sensor.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>ROFLMFAO..... sure thing Larry...... any crank sensor putting out 700mv or
>better is good! hahaha. You don't know enough about drivability problems to
>even waste my time on, in other words you're even more of a dumb ass than I
>originally thought............
> Bob

700 millivolt is the _unprocessed_ voltage from the crank sensor,
Nitwit. Further up the line, it gets turned into a logic Hi of 5
volts. Probably by an operational amplifier. In the signal
processing areas of the car.

You just demonstrated your COMPLETE void of knowledge when it comes to
electronics.

And I mean by that, you've just received an F- ( unfortunately we
cannot give out grades below 100% incorrect ).

Lg